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That is absolutely incorrect. | |||
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| Get my pies outta the oven!  |
Ok, then don’t be shy. Let us know why you don’t think KT’s are worth looking at? OP, sorry to start this in your thread, I HAPPEN to think Kel-Tec’s Are decent for what they cost, around $250 or less. I own two with zero problems between them. | |||
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| Member |
Make that 2, I've owned 2 and both were garbage. But if you absolutely need a gun now and don't plan to shoot it much then it will work in a pinch. But to claim that kel-Tec makes quality firearms is very laughable | |||
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Member |
You will be hard pressed to find a sweeter deal than a 9mm Shield for $298 with free shipping. https://www.sportsmansoutdoors...ducts2.cfm/ID/147435 __________________________ If attacked by a mob of clowns, go for the juggler. ----------------------------------- KC P220, KE P226 | |||
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Member |
Well it's a little complicated because my brother lives in New York State with all types of messed up gun laws. He looked at a keltec P11 today and was asking me what I thought about it. | |||
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| Member |
If he is only going to play with it at the range, go for a Keltec. But I wouldn't use one to defend myself. It's like buying a motorcycle helmet. You can buy something basic that'll satisfy any helmet law and keep your brains in mostly one place. Or you can buy something that will actually protect you. How much is your life worth? In the not-too-long run, ammo ends up being many more times the cost of the pistol. ------------------------------------------------ Charter member of the vast, right-wing conspiracy | |||
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Member |
Case closed! Risk the consequences of honesty... | |||
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Member |
Since he lives in NY if he buys the Shield he would get a $75 rebate from Smith and Wesson if he purchases by the end of the month. I would take a Shield over a Keltec any day for not that much more. | |||
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| Member |
PSA has LCP for $169.00 till monday... | |||
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| addicted to trailing-throttle oversteer |
S-H-I-E-L-D. Or a Canik TP9SF if he wants to bump his budget up by $13 to $25. Crummy (non)holster included. Then there's the Taurus 709 Slim at $180 to $200, if he REALLY wants to save some cheddar. I've sold a ton of these with absolutely glowing reports back on them. | |||
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| Member |
When the P3AT was being pushed as a law enforcement backup, allegedly equal to the task, I bought one. Three, actually, but one; I got one for me, and then two for a couple of friends. When I an curious about a firearm, I buy one. I try it out. So I bought one. I put several thousand rounds through it. I had friends shoot it (including the friends to whom I am now embarrassed to have given pistols). It had issues. The assembly pin fell out. Several hundred times. The barrel peened. The slide had problems. It went back to Keltec. Only after a fight. Keltec didn't want to take it back, and eventually did, grudgingly. Then they lost it. Claimed to have never received it. Told me they couldn't find it. Claimed they'd sent it back. It came back, jammomatic. Peening. Assembly pin falling out. Went back. Keltec whined and complained, and lost it. Again. Very rude on the phone. I did research. I found tribes of keltec apologists on line who advocated "the hairdryer trick" to fix the piece of junk saturday night special P3AT. I heard all kinds of apology. What could I expect for such a cheap pistol? Apparently not much. Fluff and buff. Nada. It came back from Keltec. I took it to a range, put in a magazine, pressed the trigger, and it crumbled into bits of plastic in my hand. As in little shards, with a stub of steel sticking out of the top of the trigger guard. Couldn't be fired. I called Keltec again. I was told it had to be my fault, that I just have used some damaging cleaner on the pistol to cause the plastic to fail. Back it went. Back it came. Still one failure after another. I tried every brand of ammunition available. I tried all kinds of shooters. Most experienced. Everyone had the same issues. Not just one pistol, but three. Now, it's possible that I only bought the three lemons out there, and though the odds are astronomical, I might have had the misfortune to get the only junk the company produced. But no. the pistol is cheaply made. Not inexpensively made, but poorly made, cheap. Even the keltec apologists had the issues, but came armed with a litany of excuses, and half-baked fixes (the "hair dryer trick" was my favorite...even keltec told customers to try that: heat up the frame with a hair dryer and pinch it together as it cooled to re-form the frame properly). I guess I could have bought a few more, but three seemed enough. Keltec advertises a 6,000 round life for their product. The apologists like to say that it's a pistol meant to "be carried a lot, and shot a little." While pure bullshit, it's a dangerous mentality to excuse a life-saving device that performs so poorly, and it's absolute folly to carry a firearm that one doesn't shoot enough to be proficient. I don't care if it's a .380. One has a duty to be sure that that every round fired will go where intended, every time. Otherwise one has no place carrying it anywhere other than the range. Most of those who own a little Keltec, those to whom I've listened or spoken, have fired their Keltec very little. A box or two, then pronounced it reliable. Really? Yes. Meant to be shot a little. Carried a lot. It's okay. No, I can't recommend a keltec. In fact, I strongly recommend against them. This shocks keltec apologists, who always make the same wrong assumption: anyone who doesn't advocate for keltec must have never seen, touched, handled, owned, or shot one. Wrong. I still have it, by the way. It makes an adequate paperweight. | |||
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E tan e epi tas |
Hard to beat a Shield or used Glock 22. As for Keltec I have never owned one but have seen three at the range lock up so tight they were done without tools / gunsmith. Didn't inspire confidence in me. Honestly, and I HATE to say this, but I have seen many, many reliable, albeit crappy high points but Kel Tecs.......not so much. "Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man." | |||
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Member |
If you're looking for new: Walther PPX / Creed - Ugly guns, but damn reliable and their quality belies their low pricing. Ruger 9E - Economy line, but another fine pistol. Good grip angle, utterly reliable, and surprisingly decent trigger. Canik TP9SF - As above, reliable, good to excellent out of the box trigger, spare mags are easily found. Overall solid budget gun. If you're looking for single stack, or even mouse guns - LCP, LC9, Shield, and on and on... but the above are all full sized, capable, 15+1 (or more) capacity, and each one has proven quite reliable. Just throwing some new options out there. | |||
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| Member |
Agreed that you're likely to land on a .40 if you're shooting for the $300 mark. Used will get you close as well, as there are a lot of trade-ins lately and the cost of .40 ammo is coming down surprisingly. ________________ tempus edax rerum | |||
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| Get my pies outta the oven! |
I’m sorry you had this experience with Kel-Tec. Did you have a very early production model? The P3AT is now on its’ second or third generation and I’ve seen none of these issues whatsoever with any KT I’ve owned or still own. At one time I had a P3AT and a PF9 and while they aren’t the most finely finished pistols, they never gave me any issues. I changed to a P32 as the recoil is much more manageable for such a tiny pistol and also now own a Sub2000 9mm Carbine which I also really like. Had some questions for KT about the Sub2000 as far as converting to take Glock magazines instead of Beretta and they were quick to respond. I do really think KT has stepped up their game since pocket pistols really took off in the past few years, Ruger even copied the P3AT almost identically to make their LCP. | |||
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| Member |
About a month ago I purchased my seventeenth Glock, a gen. 2 model 22, for $300.00. I made the 100 mile round trip to Glock, Inc. in Smyrna, GA and got the gun refurbished for free. Time and money well spent. | |||
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Nullus Anxietas |
It would really, really help if we had some idea of what he wanted to do with said firearm. Is this meant for home defence? Carry? Range toy? Some combination of those? Something else? Your question was like asking "suggest a motor vehicle under $X thousand." For what purpose? "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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Member |
I would agree, probably some of the best three full sized for that price. In addition, the Walther Creed is $269 at CDNN....again, if a full sized is what is being looked for. Sig P220 Elite Dark, W. German 220/226 Navy/226 Tac Ops/226R Stainless/228/229 Legion/229R/M11-A1D Glocks, HK, Walther, XDs, etc, etc... | |||
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Web Clavin Extraordinaire |
AIM still has LE trade-in 226 DAKs in .40 for just over $300. Easy enough to find magazines for them that are low capacity. ---------------------------- Chuck Norris put the laughter in "manslaughter" Educating the youth of America, one declension at a time. | |||
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| Unapologetic Old School Curmudgeon  |
The Ruger is a good pistol for that price, hard to beat that Don't weep for the stupid, or you will be crying all day | |||
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