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quote:
Originally posted by DanH:
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Watson:
Note that at Nighthawk, the 2011 type double stack is a $650 option on a $4000 gun.
Where's the extra work?


Hand fitting the frame to the slide and buying and fitting a metal Phoenix Trinity Grip into the frame instead of the STI plastic grip that still has sharp points around the grip and thumb safety.


OK
PT iron frame is $600 list all by itself.
I know heavy guns are popular in USPSA but Nighthawk is not making a lot of match guns.
 
Posts: 3017 | Location: Florence, Alabama, USA | Registered: July 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I’ll take that bet. 2011’s will come down in price because the 3k dollar ones won’t (probably) outperform the DWX. STI has no choice but to find a way to lower the price. Hell, the CzechMate already has taken a bite out of the expensive 2011 market and it isn’t really a 2011.

It’s hard to sell a 3000 dollar STI that doesn’t run better than a box stock DWX that ran perfectly out of the box with 29 dollar mags.

There will always be a market for people overpaying for guns. A fractional increase in perception of performance for a huge increase in cost. I give it 2 years tops if the DWX works for the comp scene to look like a CZ circus. And 2011 prices will come down. My Atlas buddy already is looking to swap and he’s never even seen the gun yet but he knows how good his S2 is and he’s sight unseen convinced. There will be a lot of guys like him.
 
Posts: 4240 | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by pedropcola:
I’ll take that bet. 2011’s will come down in price because the 3k dollar ones won’t (probably) outperform the DWX. STI has no choice but to find a way to lower the price. Hell, the CzechMate already has taken a bite out of the expensive 2011 market and it isn’t really a 2011.

It’s hard to sell a 3000 dollar STI that doesn’t run better than a box stock DWX that ran perfectly out of the box with 29 dollar mags.

There will always be a market for people overpaying for guns. A fractional increase in perception of performance for a huge increase in cost. I give it 2 years tops if the DWX works for the comp scene to look like a CZ circus. And 2011 prices will come down. My Atlas buddy already is looking to swap and he’s never even seen the gun yet but he knows how good his S2 is and he’s sight unseen convinced. There will be a lot of guys like him.


I’ll take that bet any day. The DWX won’t do anything to 2011 prices. As for “overpaying”, the custom 2011’s are worth every penny. The waiting list is long. I’ve been waiting for my latest Infinity for eight months. If Staccatos sell for $3-$4000, the high end models are certainly justified in what they charge.

Dan Wessons are not high end pistols and their market is in the $1500-$2000 range. The custom builders are not worried about Dan Wesson, trust me.

Again, I like what I see with the DWX, but I’m also being realistic.
 
Posts: 1047 | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A lot of praise for the DWX which was announced a year ago and has yet to show up?

The COVID excuse is getting a bit stale.
 
Posts: 480 | Registered: June 24, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by bac1023:
quote:
Originally posted by pedropcola:
I’ll take that bet. 2011’s will come down in price because the 3k dollar ones won’t (probably) outperform the DWX. STI has no choice but to find a way to lower the price. Hell, the CzechMate already has taken a bite out of the expensive 2011 market and it isn’t really a 2011.

It’s hard to sell a 3000 dollar STI that doesn’t run better than a box stock DWX that ran perfectly out of the box with 29 dollar mags.

There will always be a market for people overpaying for guns. A fractional increase in perception of performance for a huge increase in cost. I give it 2 years tops if the DWX works for the comp scene to look like a CZ circus. And 2011 prices will come down. My Atlas buddy already is looking to swap and he’s never even seen the gun yet but he knows how good his S2 is and he’s sight unseen convinced. There will be a lot of guys like him.




I’ll take that bet any day. The DWX won’t do anything to 2011 prices. As for “overpaying”, the custom 2011’s are worth every penny. The waiting list is long. I’ve been waiting for my latest Infinity for eight months. If Staccatos sell for $3-$4000, the high end models are certainly justified in what they charge.

Dan Wessons are not high end pistols and their market is in the $1500-$2000 range. The custom builders are not worried about Dan Wesson, trust me.

Again, I like what I see with the DWX, but I’m also being realistic.


I agree. TSO and Tanfo Extreme didn't do anything to 2011 prices, and the latter went to the podium at the Nationals. Not seeing the DWX doing any differently.
 
Posts: 408 | Registered: April 03, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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And not a single pic in this thread. Frown
 
Posts: 3637 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: August 16, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Welcome to CZ. In the best of times CZ has trouble keeping things in stock. Their plant in KC should help but I don’t really know what all they make there. I think CZ sends their product via one boat that makes round trips.

TSO’s are great. They aren’t 2011’s though. The DWX is as 2011 as you get without the name. It’s an apples to apples comparison. You undercut the lower end of Staccato if DWX’s are as good as they sound, they have no choice but to try to compete price wise. If DWX is as good a 2011 as a Valor is a 1911, then you will get a lot of people shooting these guns. Those converts will come from somewhere. If you don’t think the DWX worries the Staccato people, you are nuts. They are about to have a huge, respected, international company with a great reputation enter their exact market spot. If you follow CZ at all, you know if the guns do well they will introduce the ported, optics ready, gas pedal, lightening cut, etc etc version. The one with a frame mount for optics. All the bells and whistles. Think a Parrot, CzechMate. STI/Staccato isn’t looking forward to this.
 
Posts: 4240 | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am more than OK with that. I've been competing with Shadows for years, they are good guns, so I get it that CZ makes a decent gun. I personally wouldn't own an STI so if they lost market share, I would not care. However the 2-3K STIs haven't done much to the SVIs and Atlases. Infinity wait time is still over a year and Atlas has only been increasing their prices despite STI being cheaper and relatively more prevalent. Whatever happens at the bottom of 2011 food chain won't shake up the entire pyramid.
 
Posts: 408 | Registered: April 03, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by mikeyspizza:
And not a single pic in this thread. Frown


Here's one of mine...Atlas Hyperion










 
Posts: 1047 | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by pedropcola:
Welcome to CZ. In the best of times CZ has trouble keeping things in stock. Their plant in KC should help but I don’t really know what all they make there. I think CZ sends their product via one boat that makes round trips.

TSO’s are great. They aren’t 2011’s though. The DWX is as 2011 as you get without the name. It’s an apples to apples comparison. You undercut the lower end of Staccato if DWX’s are as good as they sound, they have no choice but to try to compete price wise. If DWX is as good a 2011 as a Valor is a 1911, then you will get a lot of people shooting these guns. Those converts will come from somewhere. If you don’t think the DWX worries the Staccato people, you are nuts. They are about to have a huge, respected, international company with a great reputation enter their exact market spot. If you follow CZ at all, you know if the guns do well they will introduce the ported, optics ready, gas pedal, lightening cut, etc etc version. The one with a frame mount for optics. All the bells and whistles. Think a Parrot, CzechMate. STI/Staccato isn’t looking forward to this.


I said the custom builders aren't concerned with Dan Wesson. I said nothing of Staccato.

That being said, the DWX will have very minimal impact on the 2011 market at any price range. While it may take some sales, it will not change 2011 pricing, at least not on any notable scale. Trust me on this one.
 
Posts: 1047 | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I love these 2011’s. Beautiful. But you know what’s funny - in my second USPSA match having a faster time than a master class LE shooter with a 9mm STI and me shooting my carry gen2 g19.
 
Posts: 364 | Registered: January 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
For real?
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Thanks. You just reminded me I bought a Staccato C2 that I never shoot. Since I'm eventually doing RMRs on everything, I'll have to figure out the best way to make the C2 accept the RMR. Or get rid of it and buy another C2 that can accept the RMR. Big Grin



Not minority enough!
 
Posts: 7212 | Location: Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
War Damn Eagle!
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That being said, the DWX will have very minimal impact on the 2011 market at any price range. While it may take some sales, it will not change 2011 pricing, at least not on any notable scale. Trust me on this one.


This.

Did Glock didn't change their prices when the 320 or M&P came out?
Ruger didn't slash their prices on their .22s just because Glock introduced the Glock 44.

Staccato isn't making pistols solely for the competition market. Their main demographic is MIL/LEO/Carry Guns.
A look at their website front page will tell you who their target audience is.


quote:
If you don’t think the DWX worries the Staccato people, you are nuts


It doesn't. Not one bit.
No more than Glock/SIG/S&W was worried about the CZ P-10.
Or CZ about the Beretta 92X Performance.
Maybe pre-2018 when it was under their old ownership and STI's main focus was competition guns, but not now.


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Posts: 12278 | Location: Realville | Registered: June 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Snake207:
Staccato isn't making pistols solely for the competition market. Their main demographic is MIL/LEO/Carry Guns.
A look at their website front page will tell you who their target audience is.




They gave up the competition market about the time they changed the name from STI to Staccato. Recognition for their movie props led them into the service pistol market.

I have a ca 2012 STI Eagle and a local parts assembly on a STI frame, "the Buzzard" that I shoot in USPSA and IDPA. I cannot see where spending three or four times the money would improve my scores. The guns are accurate and reliable so what is to gain with a boutique pistol?
 
Posts: 3017 | Location: Florence, Alabama, USA | Registered: July 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Still finding my way
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Because.... Racegun!
 
Posts: 9438 | Registered: January 04, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Chowser:
Thanks. You just reminded me I bought a Staccato C2 that I never shoot. Since I'm eventually doing RMRs on everything, I'll have to figure out the best way to make the C2 accept the RMR. Or get rid of it and buy another C2 that can accept the RMR. Big Grin


Chambers RDSM. Have one on my C2 and love it.
 
Posts: 4163 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
For real?
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quote:
Originally posted by DaBigBR:

Chambers RDSM. Have one on my C2 and love it.



Thanks! Probably cheaper than getting a C2 DUO. One of their authorized milling shops is an hour away from me!


Some 2011 porn of my C2.




Not minority enough!
 
Posts: 7212 | Location: Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Chowser:
quote:
Originally posted by DaBigBR:

Chambers RDSM. Have one on my C2 and love it.



Thanks! Probably cheaper than getting a C2 DUO. One of their authorized milling shops is an hour away from me!


The fact that the RDSM was cheaper than the DUO model coupled with the overly thick plate for an RMR with the DUO was what made up my mind. There are thinner plates now but if I bought one today, I'd probably go the same route.

I used Dave Laubert for my C2 and Brandon Buhler for my P. The RDSM is a great mount that is about as low as you're going to get on a 1911/2011. My only gripe is that there is a lot of stuff out there claiming you can use a standard height getting sight but that is not my experience. Gun is about 8" high at 25 yards with the factory front. I bought a Dawson front that fixed it.
 
Posts: 4163 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There's a version called the TRS that's a Commander for $4k with night sights or the TRS Comp like this gun for $4500 with night sights but no optic cut. They're optic cut is really nice, you get the "One Gun, One Gunsmith" service, and you gun with be able to take a beating.
 
Posts: 2592 | Location: Kansas City, MO | Registered: May 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Because people love the idea of an old craftsman hand filing stuff while sitting at a cool bench with a leather apron on. It used to take a ton of time and skill.

I'm sure the skill is still needed but the time for most manufacturers that can afford the latest state of the art CNC machines has been drastically reduced to the point where people wouldn't have that dreamy sequence above dancing in there head if they could watch the entire process.

Essentially there's still no free lunch. You either pay a craftsman a ton of man hours or pay for state of the art CNC machines and less craftsman time.
 
Posts: 2693 | Registered: January 25, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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