I will admit I’m not an “old school gun guy” who grew up shooting 1911s with my dad in the back yard. In fact I got into firearms later in life.
I primarily have modern polymer handguns for carry and self defense (I carry a P365XL), but also have and enjoy larger pistols at the range. Recently got an M9 and love it. Accurate, fun to shoot, old school metal pistol designed in the 1970s.
Don’t have a 1911 but was considering a 2011. Why are they so outrageously expensive. Atlas, Staccato, etc…$2000-$6000. It’s a double stack polymer version of a gun that’s been around for 110 years. Why so much?
May 18, 2021, 09:46 AM
limblessbiff
Because boomers with a lot of money will gladly pay it. Just like they pay 1000-2000 for a fancy standard 1911. If something is pretty enough or tacticool enough they can get away with jacking up the price
May 18, 2021, 10:20 AM
Snake207
It's because you're basically buying a custom, hand-fitted pistol with exacting tolerances and not a mass-produced, assembly line gun.
Whereas Glock may crank out 1000 pistols a day (or whatever number), Nighthawk, Staccato, Atlas and the like might produce only 100 per day.
I've toured the plant of one of these manufacturers. LOTS of hand-fitting and attention to detail. They know certain expectations come with a pistol in that price range and they take pride in their work.
Also, it's not like these pistols cost $300 to make and they are "jacking up the prices". I know for a fact that it costs them more than that just to buy the barrel blanks and frame modules alone. Plus you're talking a 100% American made pistol.
Hilton Yam did a brief video on Staccato a few years ago that shows a little peak behind the curtain as to what goes into building one of their pistols.
Because you're talking about smaller batch guns with considerably tighter tolerances and more required fitting. Really Staccato is the only company building them in large quantity. The next closest thing is probably Triarc (and they're much more expensive).
Why is a Corvette more expensive than a Camaro? They both go fast.
May 18, 2021, 11:57 AM
jimmy123x
The low volume and high degree of labor to produce one.
May 18, 2021, 11:57 AM
bac1023
quote:
Originally posted by limblessbiff: Because boomers with a lot of money will gladly pay it. Just like they pay 1000-2000 for a fancy standard 1911. If something is pretty enough or tacticool enough they can get away with jacking up the price
There’s no “price jacking” with these guns.
They are built from the best materials and hand fitted. Those guys don’t work cheap.
I have a few and they’re all in the $6000 range. Worth every penny as far as I’m concerned.
May 18, 2021, 12:13 PM
neil0311
quote:
Originally posted by bac1023:
quote:
Originally posted by limblessbiff: Because boomers with a lot of money will gladly pay it. Just like they pay 1000-2000 for a fancy standard 1911. If something is pretty enough or tacticool enough they can get away with jacking up the price
There’s no “price jacking” with these guns.
They are built from the best materials and hand fitted. Those guys don’t work cheap.
I have a few and they’re all in the $6000 range. Worth every penny as far as I’m concerned.
I wasn’t accusing anyone of gouging or jacking up the price. I truly wasn’t clear why they were that expensive. Makes sense that they’re boutique guns made by hand, and the cost is higher in that type of low volume, small batch production.
May 18, 2021, 12:40 PM
Flash-LB
I've got a friend whose son works for Nighthawk and believe me, they put a ton of hand work into their guns.
I don't have one and never will, but I appreciate all the time they put in one.
May 18, 2021, 01:00 PM
bac1023
quote:
Originally posted by neil0311:
quote:
Originally posted by bac1023:
quote:
Originally posted by limblessbiff: Because boomers with a lot of money will gladly pay it. Just like they pay 1000-2000 for a fancy standard 1911. If something is pretty enough or tacticool enough they can get away with jacking up the price
There’s no “price jacking” with these guns.
They are built from the best materials and hand fitted. Those guys don’t work cheap.
I have a few and they’re all in the $6000 range. Worth every penny as far as I’m concerned.
I wasn’t accusing anyone of gouging or jacking up the price. I truly wasn’t clear why they were that expensive. Makes sense that they’re boutique guns made by hand, and the cost is higher in that type of low volume, small batch production.
I understand
My comment wasn’t directed at you sir.
May 18, 2021, 01:43 PM
sns3guppy
Supply. Demand.
Mostly demand.
There's a waiting list.
May 18, 2021, 02:35 PM
MikeinNC
STIs are basically a custom gun. I shoot with some of the guys who work there and everything is hand fitted.
And they keep up with their product. My FIL has a STI grand master in 38super comp. he wanted another slide/barrel in 9mm . He sent it to his gunsmith who sub-contracted some of the barrel/comp work...that gunsmith posted something on a gunsmith forum and STI jumped in and had the gun shipped back to the factory- where they fitted the new slide/barrel/comp properly. The comp is part of the barrel and he gunsmith had never worked with that product and was in the process of creating a disaster. STI made it right.
I love mine.
I just wish I could get a staccato without all the slide cuts. Don’t like how they look
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May 18, 2021, 04:49 PM
.38supersig
I was able to get an STI Perfect 10. Fantastic pistol.
STI customer service was total and complete shit fully staffed by ornery assholes.
The next time I was thinking about a 2011, I decided on an SVI. I'm glad I did.
May 18, 2021, 04:52 PM
Jim Watson
Note that at Nighthawk, the 2011 type double stack is a $650 option on a $4000 gun. Where's the extra work?
May 18, 2021, 05:39 PM
venenoindy
quote:
Originally posted by .38supersig: I was able to get an STI Perfect 10. Fantastic pistol.
STI customer service was total and complete shit fully staffed by ornery assholes.
The next time I was thinking about a 2011, I decided on an SVI. I'm glad I did.
I don't have money for an SVI, do not buy an Staccato?
May 18, 2021, 05:46 PM
DanH
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Watson: Note that at Nighthawk, the 2011 type double stack is a $650 option on a $4000 gun. Where's the extra work?
Hand fitting the frame to the slide and buying and fitting a metal Phoenix Trinity Grip into the frame instead of the STI plastic grip that still has sharp points around the grip and thumb safety.
May 18, 2021, 05:55 PM
bac1023
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Watson: Note that at Nighthawk, the 2011 type double stack is a $650 option on a $4000 gun. Where's the extra work?
Nothing against Nighthawk, since they make a great 1911, but if you want an awesome 2011, buy it from a 2011 manufacturer. Infinity, Atlas, Limcat, etc…..
Sure they’re more expensive, but if you want the best, that’s the way to go. For something on the production end, Staccato is a great option.
Not speaking to you, Jim. I’m just speaking in general.
May 18, 2021, 06:06 PM
DaBigBR
quote:
Originally posted by venenoindy:
quote:
Originally posted by .38supersig: I was able to get an STI Perfect 10. Fantastic pistol.
STI customer service was total and complete shit fully staffed by ornery assholes.
The next time I was thinking about a 2011, I decided on an SVI. I'm glad I did.
I don't have money for an SVI, do not buy an Staccato?
STI as people knew it is gone. It was acquired by new owners in 2017 or 2018. I have found the post-ownership change customer service to be good. I never bought anything from them prior to the change. The extent of my interaction with them has been requesting optic mounting plates for a gun I bought used (sent to me free) and asking a couple technical questions. Responses have always been prompt and thorough.
May 18, 2021, 06:22 PM
pedropcola
When CZ gets their post covid act in gear be prepared for 2011’s to come back to earth price wise. The DWX is a 2011 killer. Assuming it runs well which there isn’t much reason to think it won’t. My buddies have 2011’s and they are great guns. Atlas and STI are the two I’m most familiar with handling and shooting. If CZ delivers what I expect them to deliver, they will do exactly what they’ve done to most of the competition buyers. Get their business.
These guns are phenomenal performers but they also can be very finicky until you dial one in. Mags, springs, loads. On the other hand I bet the DWX will eat anything, cost much less, and perform every bit as well if not better. I guarantee CZ is keeping these guys up at night.
Cue the guys with really expensive guns that get beat by a really good CZ product to talk about hand fitting, materials, America, etc.
Wait till you can try out a DWX before you drop your coin. Plus it uses P09/P10F mags which never need to be tuned or tweaked or whatever and come in at a fraction of the price.
2011’s are so expensive because no one has ever provided a quality alternative at a great price.
May 18, 2021, 06:29 PM
.38supersig
^^^
That is good to hear that STI is under new management and have been able to turn themselves around.
The Perfect 10 is fun.
May 18, 2021, 08:18 PM
bac1023
quote:
Originally posted by pedropcola: When CZ gets their post covid act in gear be prepared for 2011’s to come back to earth price wise. The DWX is a 2011 killer. Assuming it runs well which there isn’t much reason to think it won’t. My buddies have 2011’s and they are great guns. Atlas and STI are the two I’m most familiar with handling and shooting. If CZ delivers what I expect them to deliver, they will do exactly what they’ve done to most of the competition buyers. Get their business.
These guns are phenomenal performers but they also can be very finicky until you dial one in. Mags, springs, loads. On the other hand I bet the DWX will eat anything, cost much less, and perform every bit as well if not better. I guarantee CZ is keeping these guys up at night.
Cue the guys with really expensive guns that get beat by a really good CZ product to talk about hand fitting, materials, America, etc.
Wait till you can try out a DWX before you drop your coin. Plus it uses P09/P10F mags which never need to be tuned or tweaked or whatever and come in at a fraction of the price.
2011’s are so expensive because no one has ever provided a quality alternative at a great price.
The DWX looks like a quality pistol and I plan to grab one, but it won’t do anything to 2011 prices. People aren’t choosing between a $6000 Infinity or Atlas and a DWX for Limited competition purposes. Will the DWX substitute for some of the production 2011’s? Sure it will, but it won’t reduce prices even in that market.
You’re talking apples and oranges when it comes to the custom 2011 market though. They all have long waiting lists and prices will just continue to rise.