A few years back I bought into the RDS trend with a 365 & holosun .
Since I’ve not added them to most / all my carry pistols I’ve continued to have issues finding the dot when indexing on a target after drawing.
I know I’m unintentionally focusing on the dot but after so many decades of shooting iron sights (USMC & Dept. Annual requalls) I’m looking for a reticle that can aid with this .
This morning , while shopping for the best deal on the EOS Carry I saw the ACSS Vulcan model of Holosun / Primary Arms that appears to be what I’m looking for as the circle aids in locating the dot with my peripheral vision.
I’m interested in seeing if anyone here has experience with it ???










The circle dot on the EPS doesn’t seem large enough to be what I’m looking for

I personally am not a fan of the circle dot reticle as it is even more messed up by my astigmatism than just the dot(blob). Not locating the dot is indicative of something else going on in your presentation. You mentioned searching for the dot which is ingrained from years of transitioning from the target to the front sight. As you know the target is your front sight with a red dot pistol optic. So my first question is there a particular spot the dot is found (ie low, right, or left) or is it completely random? Have you noticed anything about your grip when the dot is missing?

Not trying to discourage you from trying the circle dot reticle as many people find it useful. It took me a long time to undo many years of bad habits and my ability to make necessary adjustments on irons. Mastering the dot will clean that up and make you even better on irons. The predominant amount of my dry fire and live fire presentations are using optics but I have yet to CCW with an optic. If you use the circle dot as a training tool to diagnose any issues you are having in your presentation then I say go for it. You’d probably still be better sticking to irons if you’re going to use it to “buy” a fix. For me the dot was an ego check which came with a hefty serving of humble pie. It was a conversation with Jerry from OpSpec that got me unstuck from a similar spot that you are in today. Best of luck with whatever path you choose.

“Not being able to find the dot” is a common issue. And the issue is caused due to your presentation isn’t good. The issue will clear up and the dot, big or small, will be there with 3-4 days of dry fire for a few weeks.

As to learning target focus, placing painters tape on the front glass during training will help cure this.

With regard to the ACSS, Ben Stoeger describes the intended use of the outer ring at 3:42, but ignore the info about the Chevron as he has the 507C, not K, but the outer ring info is relevant.



His experience may not be yours, as his firing schedule is pretty ludicrous, so his muscle memory to index the pistol does what the ACSS is supposed to train you do do.

I cannot stand the circle dot reticle.

I will be replacing a RDS to a 6 minute circle reticle.

I just recently decided to revisit trying to become more proficient using an optical sighted handgun. After a couple of range sessions I realized that I could use the same sighting technique I’ve always used with irons to help me get the dot reticle on target quickly and accurately.

When I engage a target with conventional iron sights I try to maintain focus on the target as I would instinctively do if it were a threat, and then bring the sights into my peripheral field of view. I may briefly switch focus to carefully align the sights if necessary at longer target distances.

Although I haven’t used my optically-sighted P320 slide too much yet, during the second range session of an exercise that runs 50+ rounds, what worked better for me than trying to find the dot was to go back to my decades-long practice of getting the irons on target first. At close distances of 3 to 5 yards I just used the flash sight picture of the irons for aiming, but at longer distances and having already mostly aligned the irons, the dot reticle was well within the sight window and I could then use it for my shots.

The first time I ran the exercises with my ACRO optic was before I had irons mounted on the slide I dedicated for the purpose, and when I started using the irons as I describe, my stage speeds improved significantly.

Whether that method of using the irons as part of the initial aiming and target engagement process will work for everyone, I of course don’t know, but I intend to continue experimenting with it myself. And also of course, it’s necessary to be able to see the irons by having suppressor height sights for the method to work. If we don’t have those sights on the gun, then we’re back to square one of the “find the dot” game.

As a final comment I currently see no reason for me to ever switch to an optically-sighted handgun for concealed carry, but I’m trying to become familiar and proficient with the devices because my agency is tending to move in that direction for patrol officers. For uniformed law enforcement purposes optic sights would offer significant advantages in some reasonably-foreseeable situations—assuming, of course, that the optic still works when the officer finally gets around to using it in a live incident.

ACSS will help you align the dot and works well for weird shooting positions with forced odd presentations.

That said, in normal use, you’ve got a software issue not a hardware one. You need to work on your presentation, both eyes open target focus. The ring will aid you but is a bit of a crutch in this regard (but it has its uses).

I guess I am lucky as I’ve always shot irons, both eyes open and fairly target focused so dots really were not that big of a deal for me.

Long story short The ACSS is a great reticle and you can disable it if you wish or as your skills improve.

Other folks please note this is NOT a circle dot or circle chevron reticle. With a proper presentation you will never see the circle.

I've never used the ACSS, but from what I've heard from those who have, it did help correct a sloppy index initially, but after a little training it became a useless feature.

jljones beat me to it, but you can accomplish the same thing for a lot less money (and while maintaining a true target focus instead of focusing on the optic looking for that outer ring) with a roll of masking tape. I keep one in my range bag and it does double-duty for this purpose and pasting targets. Cover the front of the optic with the tape and practice drawing and acquiring the dot with both eyes open focused on the target. You can do this dry to practice presentation and index, as well as live (both hands, RHO and LHO) for recoil recovery.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I just recently decided to revisit trying to become more proficient using an optical sighted handgun.

You always do in-depth assessments. Just curious if you've tried the Leopold Deltapoint Micro (available only for Glock and S&W) and had any thoughts. Would be interest in your assessment.

I like it but I seem to be odd man out. Not sure if there is something bad I'm missing.

quote:

I like it but I seem to be odd man out

Like as in you own one or like the concept.

I just wish they engineered a different battery compartment location. Beyond that I have no practical experience with them but I like the concept.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Just curious if you've tried the Leopold Deltapoint Micro ....

No. I had a Docter sight years ago but never made any serious attempt to become proficient at the time.
My optic now is an ACRO, and am just starting to use it to any significant degree.

My other recent exposure to an optic on a handgun was using a loaner SIG red dot (don’t recall the model) for a couple of training sessions. The presenter had just completed an instructor development class and was teaching a particular method of drawing and aiming that involves bringing the gun nearly vertically up to chest level and then pushing it straight out toward the target.

I guess that’s good in theory, especially for shooters who have great difficulty in seeing the dot reticle when at full extension, but I quickly decided it wasn’t for me. I just went back to the draw and engagement stroke I’ve used for decades with irons.

All in all, at this point I’m actually surprised that I’m doing better with the optic than I anticipated. Although this will no doubt be heart palpitations-causing heresy for the experts with such sights, I use the suppressor-height irons for close ranges and the red dot for precision at longer distances. That obviously involves shifting mental gears, but so far ….

If your primary issue with the dot concept is locating the dot, then the ACSS can be very useful at first. The chevron reticle is not useful on a pistol IMO, and if it's just a dot in the center versus the chevron it's vastly preferable.

If you train enough with any dot you won't need or even see the outer ring, so unless you've put in significant time drawing/presenting and/or shooting a red dot and are still having issues consistently finding the dot, the ACSS won't have any real value for you once you get good at presnting consistently. But if you have, yes, it will be of value.

Focus on the target and present your pistol consistently. If you practice enough the dot will appear quicky and reliably.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
“Not being able to find the dot” is a common issue. And the issue is caused due to your presentation isn’t good. The issue will clear up and the dot, big or small, will be there with 3-4 days of dry fire for a few weeks.

As to learning target focus, placing painters tape on the front glass during training will help cure this.

This.

Try occluding the dot. Use the same painter's tape to put little targets on your wall. Start slow and deliberate. Work a few minutes a day. 10-15 minutes once a day will get you an hour or more a week.

This is ultimately a problem with your index. Irons are "faster" because you can see what is wrong on the presentation and correct it, but your index is still trash. What you will find is that if you build a solid enough index with an optic, your irons will always be aligned when/if you shoot irons.

The ACSS reticle is ultimately a crutch that keeps you from having to improve your index.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
“Not being able to find the dot” is a common issue. And the issue is caused due to your presentation isn’t good. The issue will clear up and the dot, big or small, will be there with 3-4 days of dry fire for a few weeks.

As to learning target focus, placing painters tape on the front glass during training will help cure this.

All of this.
It took me a solid 2-3 months of doing dry fire draws (on a timer) for 15-20 minutes a day, 3-4 days per week - before it became consistent.

Use a Sharpie and put a small circle on your dry fire targets, and focus on that. Make the dot go there. This will help you focus on the target instead of the dot.

At the range, do live fire First Shot drills.
Beep, draw, shoot one shot. Repeat. Put in a Par time (second beep) and gradually push yourself to get that first shot off quicker and on target.

This stuff works.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

As to learning target focus, placing painters tape on the front glass during training will help cure this.

I like this suggestion. New to the game and am going to try it.

Thx

quote:

The circle dot on the EPS doesn’t seem large enough to be what I’m looking for

It's not- Think more of a "EOTech" reticle.
You're going to see all of that in the glass.

The ACSS- the circle is larger than the glass and will "direct you" to where the dot is.
But that's a band-aid. The problem is, as JLJones put it "Your presentation isn't good".

Work on picking up the dot in your sight line.

You actually dont see the circle on this one unless you arent lined up properly. It is, as has been pointed out, good for shooting in weird positions and I like the chevron for normal shooting. I have it in a 509T PA only, and a 507. I wish they'd market the reticle outside of PA to maybe aimpoint or something.

I really like it, I wish I could have it on all my guns. Its perfect for new shooters and really good for shooting when you dont have your normal presentation.

I like the circle dot reticle - not the new big giant circle, but the 2/30 MOA circle dot that looks like an Eotech. I’m very used to Eotechs on my ARs and after 20+ years on the circle dot it feels natural to me. If you are struggling with the circle dot reticles, try using turning the brightness down a bit.

Lots of good advice here. One thing I was taught was for most of the time, if you can't find your dot, tighten the pinky (bringing the muzzle down) and boom, there it is.

Most important thing is to work on your presentation of the gun with dry fire/draw practice.

Also, you'd be surprised that within reasonable (10 yards) distance, if you just frame the chest of the target inside the frame of the sight and press the trigger, you'll hit A-C zone (depending on your presentation) without ever seeing the dot at all.

Enjoy the practice!

quote:

Originally posted by josp:
Lots of good advice here. One thing I was taught was for most of the time, if you can't find your dot, tighten the pinky (bringing the muzzle down) and boom, there it is.

Most important thing is to work on your presentation of the gun with dry fire/draw practice.

Also, you'd be surprised that within reasonable (10 yards) distance, if you just frame the chest of the target inside the frame of the sight and press the trigger, you'll hit A-C zone (depending on your presentation) without ever seeing the dot at all.

Enjoy the practice!

In general, I have found that most users without a good index overrun the target both vertically and horizontally when they draw and present the gun. Right handed shooters tend to end up with a high left dot and left handed shooters tend to end up with a high right dot.

To work on this, I would suggest drawing the gun and when the dot is not in the desired location, figuring out where it is. Specifically where the dot is may change the strategy in how to avoid the same problem in the future. I also support working on parts of the presentation in isolation. Work on just getting the gun to the eye-target line. Do it until you can't get it wrong and then increase the speed. Once you have that where you want it, work on marrying the hands and presenting the gun. Once that is satisfactory, start drawing from the holster. If you do every presentation from the holster, you're significantly increasing the things that can go wrong.