My dad has had a FN1910 for quite a while and I'm trying to figure out some history on it.

There doesn't appears to be any good guides on serial number date ranges or proof marks.

The barrel, slide, frame and barrel cap all have the same serial number which is 53,xxxa.

Everything is stamped with the WAA140 mark and German eagles but they do not appear to be holding swastikas.

There is a (H) marking on the slide.

The frame and barrel have a MI or Mh mark.

It has the plastic FN marked grips and not the checkered wood ones seen on WII Nazi ones.

Thanks for any insight.

1910 or 1910/22?

the 10/22 was common during WWII, and the WaA140 was a common mark,

grips could have been replaced, or be original,


may want to try the military handgun forum at gunboards or maybe Jan Still's luger forum,

Information on produced serial number ranges are very difficult to find since most war time information of Waa and FN was lost. Consulting Vanderlinden, the authority in this filed, I found the following information: Only a few FN1910 pistols had been produced in the very beginning of the occupation The main production focus was on the FN1922. Waa140 is was the acceptance office in Liege which would be correct. Waa markings don’t have a swastika. It’s a stylized eagle only with the waa code underneath. The pattern of the serial number is correct. Given the fact that the serial number indicates that your pistol was in the range of the first 16000 105000 (!) pistols made. EDIT The combination of serial number and the Waa marking is legit. The combination of the other letters is unknown to me. So if your pistol is not mistaken with an FN1922 it’s legit for what it is. An FN1910 made 1940 in Herstal under Nazi occupation......A produciton of 105000 seems to be impossible WHEN only a few should have been produced according to AV. It's assumed to be an FN1922

FN serial number pattern under German occupation. A similar patter is used on all German small arms of war time production.
1 - 99999
1a - 99999a
1b - 99999b
1c - etc. etc.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: OTD,

So I looked up the differences between the 1910 and the 1922 and I'm pretty sure it is the 1922 because of the longer barrel extension piece.

OK then, glad you determined it's actually a 1922 Scurvy , I should have posted this when I finished it an hour ago though .

Ignore the suppositions , it's still got some info you might be interested in, so I'll post it anyway.

NOT a 1910 expert by any stretch, but I am a BHP guy...very much a BHP guy , and I do own at least one example of each of the "JMB associated" FN pistols from 1900 through the BHP, sooo I'm aware there are some consistent markings...including for occupation pistols, for these pistols. Of course, I’ve got the appropriate books…including Anthony Vanderlinden’s FN books, and as OTD suggests; they are the gold standard…except they are home and I’m not. I’ll try and OTD can correct me if I’m off:

First…as OTD also points out, FN didn’t produce more than a few thousand 1910s during the German occupation and IIRC that WAS very early on...like summer 1940, plus it was done using pre-existing parts and sequential FN SNs which were up around 500,000 by then. I'm certain OP's pistol is actually the 1922 lyman suggests as the 1922 was intended as a "service size" replacement for the 1910 for a foreign contract that eludes me…and the occupying Germans preferred the 1922.
EDIT; it just came to me, it was Yugoslavia. I remember because it's ironic that FN 1910 pistols were used by the Serbs to assassinate Archduke Ferdinand in Sarajevo...which was the excuse used to start WWI, yet Yugoslavia didn’t want the existing 1910, but instead wanted a 1910 based service pistol.

Second...reinforcing the above; the "a" suffix and relatively low SN, indicates OP's pistol was produced in '43 and given the mechanical and visual similarities between the 1910 and 1922 (1910/22), folks can easily confuse the two. FWIW, the "a" suffix SNs didn't replace the previous sequential SNs for 1922s and BHPs (P640b) until mid '43...I want to say May '43. These "a" suffix SNs were used for 100,000 pistols before being replaced by "b" suffix SNs. I'm certain the "b" suffix started in January '44 for the BHPs, but I only “think” the 1922s... being produced in twice the numbers, that even the "b" suffix 1922s were completed by late '43. That being the case, I suspect OP's pistol...if it is a 1922, was produced late summer/early fall '43.

Third; WaA 140 was the final Waffenamt used at FN...replacing the previous WaA103 in very late '41 and was in use until the Germans abandoned FN in August '44. It’s unlikely occupation 1910s would even have Waffenamts as I believe they were put together before the first German Inspector (WaA613) began work at FN in September ‘40.

Hope that helps

FN 1922 production of serial number blocks 1a – 79000b is estimated to have been between May 43 and Dec. 43. So you can assume it was made sometimes in Jun./Jul. 1943. Markings should be Waa140, proof should be an Eagle over N. Grips are either wood or bakelite. Source:Vanderlinden

quote:

Originally posted by submoa:
.......

I would like to edit my previous post. SN 5XXXa would have been one of the first 100'000 made, not the first 16'000. Such a high number would not correspond with "a few". So it being an FN1910 is, as the OP corrected himself, not possible.

Thanks for the info!!

Just to clarify something else on my original post, The German Eagle I mentioned is a separate stamp from the eagle over the WAA 140 mark. Its small so I can't see if it's holding anything.

I'll post some pictures when I have a chance.

Essentially, they serve two different purposes:

The eagle/swastika is the final Test Proof indicating the weapon functions properly. Military weapons manufactured @ FN would also be marked with one of the Waffenamts mentioned below.

The eagle/WaA613 or WaA103 or WaA140 indicates German Military Acceptance @ FN. These Waffenamts were assigned to individual "Chief Inspectors".

So the confidence level is high this was a Nazi gun?

quote:

Originally posted by OTD:
FN 1922 production of serial number blocks 1a – 79000b is estimated to have been between May 43 and Dec. 43. So you can assume it was made sometimes in Jun./Jul. 1943. Markings should be Waa140, proof should be an Eagle over N. Grips are either wood or bakelite. Source:Vanderlinden

Thanks OTD, the book don't lie . I'm stuck comparing...off the top of my head, everything FN with the BHP. As I mentioned; BHP (P640b) "a" suffix SNs (100,000) ran until December '43 and the "b" suffix SNs picked up in January '44....and they only got to 61800 when the occupation ended in August '44. By comparison; I know the 1922s were produced in far greater numbers and I know they fulfilled all 100,000 "a" suffix SNs much earlier and started on the 100,000 "b" suffix SNs way before '43 was over. I know they did complete all 100,000 "b" suffix SNs because they actually started on the "c" suffix before the end of the war.

Since AV apparently says they produced 179,000 1922s (100,000 "a" and 79,000 "b") and not 200,000 1922s (100,000 "a" and 100,000 "b") between May and December '43, I'd move my estimate back a bit to just summer '43 for OP's pistol. I left...and still leave, the bracket wide only because late war production was anything but steady and predictable because of shortages of material and workers as well as occasional allied bombings.

As far as WaA140 AND eagle/ "N"; RU sure AV says that? IIRC, eagle/"N" pistols were "Non-Military" (like Polizei)...some call them "Commercial" and they would not normally have the Military Acceptance Waffenamt, but would just have the final Proof (eagle/swastika), both the final proof and eagle/"N" or just the eagle/"N". There weren't many "Commercial" pistols produced as compared to Waffenamt marked Military pistols. Just my recollection though .

Thanks again for referencing AVs book here OTD. I'll be home tonight and have a look myself.

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
So the confidence level is high this was a Nazi gun?

Your 1922 is definitely FN produced under German occupation in '43...

Finally got a chance to upload pics. Please excuse the extreme size. Sigforum is the only place I know of that doesn't auto resize.

Just right click - view image to see it more screen friendly.

Thanks for the pics scurvy, your 1922 is exactly as discussed...Kool

RE:

quote:

Originally posted by submoa:
As far as WaA140 AND eagle/ "N"; RU sure AV says that? IIRC, eagle/"N" pistols were "Non-Military" (like Polizei)...some call them "Commercial" and they would not normally have the Military Acceptance Waffenamt, but would just have the final Proof (eagle/swastika), both the final proof and eagle/"N" or just the eagle/"N". There weren't many "Commercial" pistols produced as compared to Waffenamt marked Military pistols. Just my recollection though .

Thanks again for referencing AVs book here OTD. I'll be home tonight and have a look myself.

FWIW, I did check AV's book when I got home and...to my relief , my previous post above...regarding the eagle/"N" "commercial" mark, stands. I'm sure if OTD gives pg. 274 a second look, he'll see where the eagle/"N" description might easily be misinterpreted.

Not that that point matters for your pistol scurvy because...thanks to the large pics, one can see at least 3 eagle/swastika Proofs and at least 4 WaA/140 (Military) Acceptance Marks on your pistol.

Just for future reference, you'll note that the eagle of the eagle/swastika Proof has a body and a head, while the Waffenamt eagle is a stick figure eagle. The eagle/"N" "commercial" mark is also a stick figure eagle.

Oh, I suspect what you describe as "MI" or "Mh" is actually MR which is the common FN Departmental Mark meaning it was completed @ FN.