Well, if you have to be told...

I don't know what the current number was, but a few years back, it was estimated that there were about four hundred million firearms in the US. That's a lot of weapons, and a lot of people. It stands to reason that some are experts, and some are decidedly not.

There were approximately 287 million registered cars in the US, this last year; more firearms than cars, though it's impossible to say how many of those firearms are "active" or get used. A lot.

There are a lot of idiotic drivers out there; for the number of vehicles and drivers, and the minimal qualification to drive or own, it stands to reason. Likewise, there are going to be a lot of idiot owners out there. How many consider themselves "gun people" is impossible to say, but one can expect that not everyone will be an expert.

I think we could fill volumes from those who work in firearms stores, who relate what they've seen; I'm sure all of us have seen unwise behaviors in firearms stores...the people who pick up a pistol and wave it around, finger on the trigger, or comment on which one would blow the biggest hole in someone. Not the pointy ends of the stick. Conversely, I've been in the shop when Rob Leatham walked in, or other individuals with exceptional discipline, skill, and experience, who are decidedly "gun people." Let's face it, a great many cops who carry firearms for a living are not "gun people." There's no requirement to be a "gun person" that comes with ownership, or carriage.

That said, the shops where I frequent tend to have the same people behind the counter year after year, many of whom compete, work in law enforcement, are former military, teach, etc. There are two shops where I go that have such expertise behind the counter that they're my go-to sources for information, opinion, recommendation, and insight in certain areas.

Some of us focus on one thing, and not another. I'm not a hunter; couldn't tell you much about it. I'm not a long range shooter. I shoot handguns, and carry handguns. Not an expert. I'm quite ignorant in some areas, and know a bit in others. I don't consider myself a "gun person." I like firearms. I have a lot of firearms. I continue to improve the ones I've got, and buy others. I compete for fun, as an amateur, and have never done or been anything remarkable in any way that would gain notice. A middle of the pack guy. I know others who hate firearms, who own but don't shoot, who shoot a little, and yet others who own, teach, preach, compete, train, and teach. Even some of them aren't "gun people," but they know a bit. Or a lot.

I know something about some makes or models, not much about others. The one thing I am certain of, and it doesn't just apply to firearms, is that for everything I learn, I discover two things of which I am, or was ignorant.

Everyone fits somewhere on the spectrum. If you find you know more about firearms than the next guy, good. Just don't rub it in. He or she may not be at the same level of enthusiasm, or have been around it as long, or may have a different direction.

An instructor/SWAT team member who posts here a lot, likes to refer to people as "students of the gun." I like that. Not everyone goes to class.

Very thoughtful commentary. It captures my perspective completely.

I'm lucky that I have a local shop that I've been going to for close to 40 years. Got my 1st hunting license at this shop and have done business with them exclusively.
Recently, the owner retired and gave the business to his daughter whom I went to school with so it's good for me.
I did go to a Gander Mountain one time and spoke with someone about pistols. I think a box of rocks had as much knowledge as he did.

I do not know if gun show dealers are or worse but I had multiple incidents that I will share.

At one gun show I was looking for a smaller, low recoil caliber revolver for concealed carry - something small. The person had lot of single-action Rugers and handed me this huge single-action 40+ caliber revolver (I cannot remember whether it was 45 Colt or 41 Magnum). He told me that many people are carrying these extremely large single-action revolvers for self-defense in northern VA. I let him go on for a bit and then politely handed him the gun back and walked away.

I had someone with me of small size who wanted a .380 or compact 9mm. This dealer handed the person a subcompact .40 Smith & Wesson and stated that this caliber was as soft shooting as a .22LR. A small sales pitch is expected but outright lying is unfortunate but common.

Other dealers have told me that the item I am looking at has been discontinued and therefore I should be happy to pay their price which is 30% above MSRP. Of course I knew in advance that it was not discontinued and that they were trying to gouge me.

It is unfortunate but some gun dealers seem no different than timeshare salespeople.

I'l gladly let any of you sit (or stand) behind my tables at any gunshow and observe how a good portion of people act when shopping/browsing/whatever for firearms,

^^^^It's the same at gun shops. There are days that I truly wish that we could just take a mulligan and not turn on the 'OPEN' sign with the general level of customer that we too often see come through the door. How some of them actually survived to get to their age is quite confounding. But it IS their right...even if they are foolhardy and rather stupid with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
So, the only difference was either a 15 round magazine or a 17 round one? I doubt if I would have been able to tell the difference at first... and if I got home and discovered it I would have just thought... oh well.. I need a couple more mags anyway.

Exactly. That would be what I would do also.

quote:

Originally posted by alptraum:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by alptraum:
2. A lot of the people that identify as gun people are morons.

Where do you fall in that spectrum?

I'll let others judge.

Good answer!

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:
I'l gladly let any of you sit (or stand) behind my tables at any gunshow and observe how a good portion of people act when shopping/browsing/whatever for firearms,

If any of that is directed at what I said, bear in mind I sold guitars and amps and more than a few of those were $5k+ items. I've seen and heard things a lot of people who haven't worked retail wouldn't believe and I can completely empathize with dealing with selling to the general public, but if you're insinuating that what I did is a totally different story from selling guns, I simply don't buy it. Sales is sales, and lying to or bullshitting the customer is never ok. That's poor salesmanship.

If, on the other hand, you're blaming anything people in this thread are complaining about on customers, well... that didn't fly in my store either. "But Mom, he started it!!"

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:
I'l gladly let any of you sit (or stand) behind my tables at any gunshow and observe how a good portion of people act when shopping/browsing/whatever for firearms,

If any of that is directed at what I said, bear in mind I sold guitars and amps and more than a few of those were $5k+ items. I've seen and heard things a lot of people who haven't worked retail wouldn't believe and I can completely empathize with dealing with selling to the general public, but if you're insinuating that what I did is a totally different story from selling guns, I simply don't buy it. Sales is sales, and lying to or bullshitting the customer is never ok. That's poor salesmanship.

If, on the other hand, you're blaming anything people in this thread are complaining about on customers, well... that didn't fly in my store either. "But Mom, he started it!!"

not directed towards you or anyone specifically,


I usually enjoy the 'dumbass at the counter, or Dumbass dealer at a gunshow' threads, up to a point


but as a dealer, that attends gunshows (as in has tables) I can tell you the number of folks that are complained about in behind the counter are a drop in the bucket compared to those that walk in the door


honestly, it was a bit worse when I was in the grocery business,, people wise

One of my happiest days was the day I told the manager of the Godforsaken gunshop to kiss my ass and I walked out.

I wish I had a nickel for every dumbass I had to listen to, while having to work there due to sorry circumstances. Never again. Regards 18DAI

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 18DAI,

I love people's "gun friend" at gun shows. Sometimes the friend actually knows what they are talking about and sometimes the friend is dumb as shit. I have usually just made it a habit of finding someone else to talk to while their friend is selling them a certain gun for all the wrong reasons. Sometimes I feel bad for the people and ask them if they want actual good information, but I've found it's not always easy to convince someone their "gun guy friend" is an idiot so usually I just let them be.

I bought a Chiappa Rhino from a big box store out here a couple months ago because I wanted one and couldn't get one from a distributor so when they had a decent price I bought it. I have my FFL on file so they just transfer it to my FFL instead of doing 4473. I get it home and go to check it into my system and realize the Serial on the receipt matches the box, but the gun is a different serial.
So I call them and a receptionist so I ask to speak to the gun counter.

"Oh they're busy is there something I can help you with?"
Oh this should be good. Sure, so I explained what happened
"Oh its probably just a replacement box sometimes they get damaged in shipment so they send us a new box"
So I explain to her this is a hard plastic box so probably didn't get damaged in shipment and even if they did get a replacement box I would assume it would just be a tagless box, not have a serial of another gun on it.
"It's fine"
Ok whatever. End call

Call back a little later and ask to speak to gun counter. Again I explained what happened
"Oh its not a big deal"
So it kind of is a big deal to have original box if I'm paying retail for a $1000+ gun.
"Well its probably the box they sent it in"
I doubt it. Can you check the other box you have there and tell me if it says xxxxxx whatever the serial was. I'm assuming you just gave me the box to the wrong gun, which also means the next one you sell would have the wrong box.

Finally they find out they gave me the wrong box and I had to drive back out there, which isn't very I close (50-60 miles) I just happened to be out there when I originally purchased the gun. It was just amazing to me after speaking to 3 different people when I went back not one of them was apologetic or thought anything was wrong with giving me the wrong box.

quote:

Originally posted by Kskelton:

... I have my FFL on file so they just transfer it to my FFL instead of doing 4473. I get it home and go to check it into my system and realize the Serial on the receipt matches the box, but the gun is a different serial.


Finally they find out they gave me the wrong box ...

It was just amazing to me after speaking to 3 different people when I went back not one of them was apologetic or thought anything was wrong with giving me the wrong box.

I don't know if you just wrote this wrong, but it sounds like they gave you the wrong box and you went back and got the box that matched the gun. But if the receipt had the serial number from the box, what actually happened is that they gave you the wrong gun.

If they transferred it to your FFL, did they use the serial number on the gun, or on the box? Did they transfer the correct gun, and put the wrong serial number on the sales receipt? Or did they transfer the wrong gun?

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:

quote:

Originally posted by Kskelton:

... I have my FFL on file so they just transfer it to my FFL instead of doing 4473. I get it home and go to check it into my system and realize the Serial on the receipt matches the box, but the gun is a different serial.


Finally they find out they gave me the wrong box ...

It was just amazing to me after speaking to 3 different people when I went back not one of them was apologetic or thought anything was wrong with giving me the wrong box.

I don't know if you just wrote this wrong, but it sounds like they gave you the wrong box and you went back and got the box that matched the gun. But if the receipt had the serial number from the box, what actually happened is that they gave you the wrong gun.

If they transferred it to your FFL, did they use the serial number on the gun, or on the box? Did they transfer the correct gun, and put the wrong serial number on the sales receipt? Or did they transfer the wrong gun?

This was a bigger issue I also tried to ask them about because I assumed their book would be incorrect (mine is correct because I took it off the gun), but I also wanted to make sure theirs was good. They continuously told me they had the serial off the firearm in their book and that the P.O.S. system was a separate thing. So according to them they gave me the right gun just the wrong box and the wrong serial on receipt… I thought this was weird, but I can only ask so many times until I have to assume they are ok with whatever they did

if you ever shop somewhere where the tacticool clerks like to play look see with the Glocks,
be sure to take a good look at what you buy,

I have received Glocks from other shops that had mis matched numbers, as in they had a play party and stripped down a handful of guns and put the wrong slides on the wrong frames, (all the same model)


worked at a location once where the tacticoolies did that exact thing as well,

And as bad or worse than that, is a place where the rich, neophyte owner and dickhead manager take really cool, EXPENSIVE, guns home and shoot them.

Then clean them and stick them back in the case. To be sold as "new" guns. Regards 18DAI

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
think of all the things you buy that you don't know very well - are those salesmen honest or are you just not aware they are as flakey as the rest?

There are exceptions, but if I had to bet, I'd put my money on flakey.

I admit that before I buy things I don't know well, I Google the topic extensively. Sure, there's a lot of BS out there that looks just as good as real info, but nuggets of fact/truth/logic can be pieced together. With that, you have a framework to assess salespeople's knowledge/honesty.

An error, I can forgive but one lie, and the discussion is over.

You want MORON? I will give you MORON.

I was at a gun counter many years ago perusing several different guns. The guy behind the counter ,dead seriously, tells me the following.

"You want a know a secret? They make all the guns in a single factory. The brand doesn't matter they are all made in a single place by the same people. Ammo is the same way. All the ammo is made in a single ammo factory and just packaged differently."

Mmmmmm huh, I am thinking to myself. I had one of those moments where you start to correct or debate a person and then just think better of it and move on.

To this day I picture EVERY gun being made in a magical place called "WEBEMAKINDEMALLDORF" and all the ammo being produced by low paid labor in a place called "AMMOSTAN".

Now THAT'S GOING FULL MORON.