What follows is my opinion and personal experience. I am NOT attempting to come off as any kind of expert of any kind about the topic of firearms, gun lube or any other topic. That being said:

The “P320 M17 Sig Sauer pistol”. When I google this, I get a HUGE return of information with an equally huge variety of opinions on the pistol. Most of which is just that, opinions. I thought about getting one in order to formulate my own opinion.

I have a personal M17 I purchased a couple of years ago on a lark from a local pawn shop nearby. Like most of us here, I’ve been able to find the occasional deal at pawnshops which I simply can't pass up, and this was one of those. For $475 out the door, I got the pistol, apparently unused (no way to verify, of course), the case and two 21 round mags and the one 17 rounder. It had no paperwork and one of the latches of the box was broken. All in all, I thought it was a decent deal for the time. I was curious as to the “new” US military pistol, the same way, I'm sure when the Beretta was chosen in 1985 many others were curious of the new pistol then.

My first impressions were as follows: Its hefty. Even for a polymer pistol, it feels hefty. I’m sure not a problem for its intended use. The rear sight looked to be big for its use. It covers a lot of what you can see when aligning the pistol to shoot. The polymer of the frame module feels “cheap”. I don’t know how else to put it. Other polymer pistols like the Glock, HK and even the S&W M&P feel like they use superior plastics. I know this is subjective and I have no metric to quantify this and to be clear, this is just my opinion. The trigger is “good”. Not great, but good enough to be considered “good”. Feels “mushy” when I dry fire it, but I’ve felt much worse (Taurus anybody?). At the range, I’ve found this pistol to be accurate enough for me. I’m sure there are better shooters who can run circles around me with their samples, here is an example of what I was able to do at 15 feet “at speed”.

M17 range by C G, on Flickr


I then went ahead and purchased a bunch of magazines for the pistol, a G-Code IWB holster and a Black Point Tactical OWB holster which comes from the factory with the M17 markings on it. I was planning to shoot it more or make a “kit” out of it for future trading for other guns. To be honest, I hadn't decided yet.

Recently I went to another gun shop and found something else I really wanted (dontcha hate it when that happens?) and decided to let this one go to clear up some funds. Big surprise, the "scare" of 2025 comes along, and you can't give these pistols away. I don’t subscribe to either side of the camp on the P320/M17/M18 debacle. There was a time when Glocks would shoot you in the leg and their .40 caliber would blow up in your hand even if you just look at it. So, with that happening, I figured, “Might as well shoot the bitch”. I hope that wasn’t too offensive, it's just a term me and my buddies use at the range.

Enter Froglube. I KNOW there are some people who are absolutely rolling their eyes right now, please bear with me for a moment. I purchased some Froglube after a qual with my duty weapon and the FTU (firearms training unit) had some at the range. Apparently, they were testing it out and one of the officers likes it. I figured I could get some and try it. I did, and it seemed too much trouble to keep using it. Having to degrease the whole weapon in order to use this product exclusively seemed silly. Similar in thought to being able to use only one kind of 9mm round instead of any 9mm round you can find. My wife however, LOVED the stuff. When I asked her if she would like to try it, I got the answer I normally get “Yes, please” followed by a big smile and her hands reaching over to take anything that had a frog stamped on it. My wife has been using it exclusively on her personal firearms. She has not had any problems using it.

Now I don’t go as often as I’d like either. I go about 1-2 times a month at best. I wish I could go more, but with a deputy's salary, there’s a limit to how much ammo I can get. The last time we went to the range, she took her Glocks, and I took my issued Glocks and brought along the M17. The Sig performed perfectly. Soft shooting and accurate. Surprise to me, the M17 didn’t blow up either by shooting it or holstering it when loaded. So far I can mark myself as “safe” from the deadly M17.

We brought the guns home and cleaned them. My wife with her Froglube and me with Slip 2000. I then had an idea and decided to try the Froglube on the M17. I don’t normally carry it off duty, but I keep it handy around the house. I’ll even take it with me when I get the chance to go bird hunting (my favorite outdoor activity). I wanted personal experience with these products, the M17 and the Froglube. I plan to use the lube as prescribed by the company and try to shoot the M17 as often as possible.

I am posting this as a personal log/journal/diary of the progress of what happens. I may decide to leave the gun dirty sometimes to see if there’s any effect on the function. As I don't use it for a duty or daily carry, I’m not worried about any life-threatening issues that may come from it.

Here are some pics of what I did today:

Froglube M17 by C G, on Flickr

Froglube M17 by C G, on Flickr

Froglube M17 by C G, on Flickr

More to follow…..

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DeputyCG,

Re- the P320 M17:
My opinion, which isn’t worth much, hey, if the gun works for you, and you trust it, and it’s reliable and accurate? Good!!!!
If your department hasn’t taken it off an “approved” list, even better.

Ahhhh… frog lube!
Because if you want to market any sort of weapon/tactical equipment, slap a Navy SEAL’s face on it.
IIRC, a few SEALs came up with “Frog Lube” and made a ton of $! Hey, good for them! They deserve it.

Here’s the interesting part- ***IIRC*** It’s Crisco and green food dye.


Here’s another interesting thing- here’s where Sig Forum comes out with everything that we use to lubricate our weapons.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
Here’s the interesting part- ***IIRC*** It’s Crisco and green food dye.

You're thinking of FireClean, another controversial "all natural" gun lube from the same time frame. Both FireClean and Frog Lube made waves online about a decade ago (2015/2016), with most of the hubbub being centered around claims that either one was mainly just repackaged cooking oil.

FireClean was revealed to be mainly vegetable oil (which was shortened into the "FireClean = Crisco" meme, replete with copious jokes about cooking with FireClean).

And according to a mass spectrometry analysis of Frog Lube, Frog Lube is mainly coconut oil with a small amount of additives, mostly to prevent it from solidifying at low temps.

I have had several 320s but don't own one right now. If I find a good deal on one I'd buy another in a minute, for one reason, I shoot them well. I like the OP think the polymer grip frame feels cheap but it fits my hand well and I just flat out shoot it well.

The P320 is actually NOT allowed by my department. When I asked the Deputy in charge of FTU, his reply was “Because I said so. We’re sticking with Glocks.” Now I don’t mind Glocks, in fact I prefer them to other polymer handguns, but when the guy won’t even give any reason for his decision, it makes my eyebrow raise a bit.
The Froglube thing is more for “gits and shiggles” a personal experiment. Since I don’t plan to use this pistol for duty/off duty/home protection, I’m not worried about it giving me any problems. I may carry it when I go bird hunting. But that would be it. It may be just fragranced coconut oil, but then gun oil is just fancy motor oil, isn’t it? I normally use M Pro 7 or Slip myself as I’ve had good luck, bit honestly Ill use hopes 9 if I can’t get my favorite. If there is any noticeable damage or negative effects at the range, I’ll just stop using it and switch. I guess I really want to see for myself with a handgun I’m not using for self-defense.

As a rule (and within the bounds of common sense) I'm all for the proposition that it's good to try something for yourself before drawing conclusions.

I will say this about FrogLube, though - however well it works as a lubricant and (perhaps?) preservative, I do NOT recommend putting it on a gun and leaving the gun stored and untouched for any extended period of time. I have seen that experiment tried and the end result for five or six pistols has been that the pistols wind up gummed up to the point that moving parts don't move and anything that has had a substantial amount of FrogLube on it looks (honestly) like it's covered in caked-on, dried out and rotten guacamole salad.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you shoot, clean and lube regularly then maybe it'll work just fine for you. But if you choose to apply it and then store the firearm unused for any period of time, it would make a lot of sense to function check and field strip the firearm from time to time to make sure you aren't creating a problem that will take hydrosonic baths and plenty of elbow grease to correct. For THAT purpose petroleum-based lubricants and preservatives are very, very hard to beat.

Many lubricants will harden up and cause a gun to seize given enough lube and enough time. I recently bought an old (60's ish) Rossi revolver that had been pretty much soaked in an oil and left for decades. The cylinder would not rotate, trigger pull, etc. I hung it in the backyard and sprayed it down thoroughly with brake cleaner several times (nearly blinding myself in the process, but that's another story). I then washed it, dried it with a hair dryer, and lubed it with Eezox. Darn thing runs like a sewing machine now. I really don't believe it had ever been fired outside the factory.

Froglube lore is strange, like anything else some people bought some of the hype, some did not... but I think the "hype" was coming an early version if the internet "influencer" rather than from the company itself. (I knew one of these people personally, not an employee, not a "sponsored shooter", but they had some affiliation and got free stuff from them since they were high profile in competitive shooting circles.) People reacted to that strongly, and negatively.

Some people vehemently and quite vocally rejected this hype. But what made it so strange was so many being so very outspoken refuting claims that no one had actually made. The naysayers started invented their own hype, then ridiculed that! It's sort of become like an urban legend at this point... "They said it would cure male pattern baldness AND carbon build up, and it didn't! At least that's what I heard."

quote:

...slap a Navy SEAL’s face on it.

You mean the cartoon frog? (but it's a perfect example of what I mean)


I love Froglube for black powder guns and parkerized guns. I also us it as short term slide lubrication on a few guns. (which is how I use most any slide grease)
Like anything else, good for some stuff, less so for others.

I have an M18 and it shoots very good.

I just lube it with clenzoil grease.

The young-un were not around back in the 90's and early 2000 when Glock had their 'issues'.

Claims of Glock going off on their own. All resulted from negligent handling, forgetting to check chamber before disassembly, amongst other factors. Sound familiar?

Then there were the .40 debacle. Glock 22 and 23 were having extractor blown out from regular function. They fixed it but it became a folklore amongst LEO...the .40 will blow up on you.

Use what you like on your guns. I still use Tri-flow on my guns. I just like the way it smells. Like Hoppe #9. I swear I should bottle that stuff and sell it on the cologne market. Some of you would buy it!

It took me a long time to discover a 100 year old product. But, I use Ballistol almost exclusively now. Maybe a light grease or heavier oil on frame rails on occasion. But, I could likely make it through the rest of my life with nothing but Ballistol. There’s little bottles in my car. In my shooting bags. I’ve used it on minor cuts and scrapes. Dry cracked hands. Get tape residue off things. Clean guns. Lube guns. Wipe down carbon kitchen knives. Oils pocket knife pivots.

Is it “the” best for everything? Who knows. Do my guns work? Knives not rust? Does it not poison me? Yes.

I'm off of the "gun lube" train. I make a mixture of Lucas Red 'n Tacky and Royal Purple 10W30. Just mix until it's about the consistency of honey and scoop it into a plastic condiment bottle. It's a high-temp synthetic blend, stays put, lubes well, and I'm set with more than I'll probably use up in a decade for $20, and that's using it quite liberally.

Ballistol is another product I’m curious about. I know its been around for some time and has many fans. When I get bored of the Froglube, I may try the Ballistol. If its half as good as I hear, I may just go to that and save money.

quote:

Originally posted by Beanhead:
The young-un were not around back in the 90's and early 2000 when Glock had their 'issues'.

Claims of Glock going off on their own. All resulted from negligent handling, forgetting to check chamber before disassembly, amongst other factors. Sound familiar?

Then there were the .40 debacle. Glock 22 and 23 were having extractor blown out from regular function. They fixed it but it became a folklore amongst LEO...the .40 will blow up on you.

Use what you like on your guns. I still use Tri-flow on my guns. I just like the way it smells. Like Hoppe #9. I swear I should bottle that stuff and sell it on the cologne market. Some of you would buy it!

I remember.....

Which is why I reserve my judgement rather than jump on the internet bandwagon like everyone else.

quote:

Originally posted by Beanhead:

Use what you like on your guns. I still use Tri-flow on my guns. I just like the way it smells. Like Hoppe #9. I swear I should bottle that stuff and sell it on the cologne market. Some of you would buy it!

Kroil!
A little dab behind the ear, and I’m all giddy!

I have two 320 and a 365 and am on the fence about selling my Glocks. That being said I tried Frog Lube over a decade ago. It worked well, and the guns I used it on cleaned up quick, but it's veggie based. If you use any type of petroleum grease or oil, the veggie based product will remove it. Frog lube was only available as a paste when I tried it, and that meant I couldn't drip it on the slide rails if I needed additional lube during a match or range session. It's also not good for long term storage so I lsed up what I had and went back to what i was using.

I'm a big BreakFree fan, and I got a gallon of it about 15 years ago from a gun store that was closing. I still have about a half a gallon left so I might be set for life. I like TW25B, Lubrapaste, and wheel bearing grease for anything that needs something that stays put. I just got a can of Balistoil because it's good for metal, wood, and leather surfaces. I've got other carbon\copper\lead fouling products that I use for deep cleaning when needed.

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
I'm a big BreakFree fan, and I got a gallon of it about 15 years ago from a gun store that was closing. I still have about a half a gallon left so I might be set for life.

Yep. I'm still working on the gallon of Breakfree CLP that I got in like 2008, and it's just under half full.

I've dallied with smaller bottles of Lucas oils over the years. And in certain applications I use grease, specific lead/copper fouling cleaners, or heavy weight storage oil. But that Breakfree covers the vast majority of my day to day gun cleaning/lubing/protection needs. And will for the next couple decades yet.

Well that didn’t take long. A quick follow up. The missus and I went to the range for some fun. We took her Gen 4 Glock 26, Her Glock 45 MOS, My Gen 4 Glock 22 and the M17. While I had no problems with my weapons, I asked to try her Glock 26 (a personal favorite of mine) and I noticed something. The trigger felt “off” not gritty but sticky. It shot fine and had no problems other than the trigger.
When we got home, my wife asked if I could clean her guns while she made dinner, of course I said yes. I then took the opportunity to examine her G26. Holy lord. It looked like a Rino with Covid had wiped its snot on the insides of the little Glock. I was picking little boogers out of the insides like it was literally snot. Now I’m sure my little lady used excessive lube, many people do, however I had never seen this. I spent some time with a degreaser and a brush taking off the green gunk from the insides of her pistol. I have never seen that with either grease or oil. It really freaked me out. I couldn’t imagine using this product on any duty/self defense firearms. I know it was probably not used as intended, however, this seemed a serious problem with the produce. It absolutely turned me off. While I had no problems with the Froglube on the M17, I felt nervous using it for the foreseeable future.
I then offered to try a new produce I found…..Ballistol. I now a bunch of you guys have used it in the past, and I have been hesitant to use a “CLP” a product that “does it all”, but I gotta admit I was impressed. My wife wasn’t impressed with the smell, but it wasn’t as “offensive” as other stuff she has used. Easy to apply and it works on other surfaces including rubber, leather and even wood. It also has the benefit of having a long, I mean really long history of success.
I then cleaned the four handguns and sprayed them with Ballistol. I took my time removing the Froglube from my M17, taking care to remove any Froglube remaining on it. I am sure there are some here who swear by it and that’s fine. I however have experienced a problem that makes me question its use for my purposes and have decided to ban its use in my house. Thank you all for your opinions and experiences, I greatly appreciate it.
Of course I end this post with a few questions, I normally do:
1) Any significant differences between Ballistol and Breakfree? I see the Breakfree at my local Academy and it would be easier to get this instead. Can it be used on leather and wood, etc?
2) Has anyone had any problems with either of these two products?
3) Is there an online vendor who y’all use to get Ballistol from?
As always, thanks to all for your input, I really appreciate this place ad always get good information.

I have Ballistol around, it was WW1 german MG lube from what I remember, I like how it works on a wide variety of things like leather/wood/guns, etc.

I like Flitz Metal Polish for Stainless/Silver Engraved things.

I don't think Breakfree CLP is anything but a CLP for guns really, I'd choose Ballistol or even better, CorrosionX for wider uses.



CorrosionX, still the best, only product approved for corrosion protection for US Military Aviation and Naval Corrosion protection. *they make a CLP too*

CorrosionX is not made from animal/vegetable/mineral oil, 90% mostly petroleum distillates with 10% unknown trade secret ingredients that make the one molecule thick "Thin Fluid Film Coating" that they also call Ionic Bonding.

I've all used it on all my guns over 25+ years and they don't even age/rust/etc.

My Glock 32 from 20+ years ago that's been carried that long has retained it's finish and looks better than some people's year old guns.

I found out about it on this very website.

Froglube says it's the original "green" lube, it's not, CorrosionX came first.

My opinion on Froglube has never been high, TW25B is older and better for military uses/MGs.

I also approve of Mil-Comm TW-25B spray too, it seems really good from my use of it.

I tend to use a bit of TW25B grease on my all metal guns, the rails and high contact points.

Breakfree CLP is low end as well, comparisons on Youtube show this.

Summary: I believe in paying slightly more for CLP's than the basic stuff, why buy an expensive/life protecting gun and put essentially mineral oil/coconut oil on it?

Using more expensive specialized products protects your investment and even your life.

I tend toward things that beat military testing/hard use and have/are being used for those purposes.

You mentioned Slip2000 in the first post.
Is that not working for you?

It’s all I’ve used for years, non-toxic and I use it exclusively.