Are they really that much better? I had one years back and honestly like my equinox better, feels better, shoots better. Both reliable as can be, just curious if the west German obsession is one of preference, principle or something more concrete?

I think they are. I had an ‘88 226 for about 8 years, and it was a great gun. It was extremely accurate and never jammed.

I’d love to get a W German P220 someday.

I own a number of West German SIG Sauers as well as the American made ones.

To me, there is no real difference other than some of the older pistols (1970's early 1980's) showed some signs of hand fitting of some of the parts, probably because they could not hold manufacturing tolerances of the individual parts like they can today.

I think my US made P226 Legion is the finest P226 I own, including my older German made guns. I definitely think the CNC milled slide is superior to the old pressed steel slides.

When it comes to more recent German vs. US production, I think they are comparable, except for the German made master shop guns of course.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CAR,

quote:

Originally posted by CAR:
I own a number of West German SIG Sauers as well as the American made ones.

To me, there is no real difference other than some of the older pistols (1970's early 1980's) showed some signs of hand fitting of some of the parts, probably because they could not hold manufacturing tolerances like they can today.

I think my US made P226 Legion is the finest P226 I own, including my older German made guns. I definitely think the CNC milled slide is superior to the old pressed steel slides.

When it comes to more recent German vs. US production, I think they are comparable, except for the German made master shop shop guns of course.

I feel like mine was mid 80's vintage but it's been a while. That Legion is BAAAAAD!!! I'm jealous!

Depends.

A W.G. P220 in 45 Auto and a NH P220 in 45 Auto would be more of owner preference.

By the same token, a P220 in 38 Super is awesome.

The same can be said for a P220 or P226 in 7.65mm.

quote:

Originally posted by .38supersig:
Depends.

A W.G. P220 in 45 Auto and a NH P220 in 45 Auto would be more of owner preference.

By the same token, a P220 in 38 Super is awesome.

The same can be said for a P220 or P226 in 7.65mm.

The WG argument would make way more sense if it was around those latter calibers, the current debate I'm in is centered around 45acp, which I contend is owner preference and my wife's brother insists the WG is "better" but can't enumerate why, so I'm being a jackass as a good brother-in-law should be.

No, but the Swiss ones are. Try finding one.

228's and 226's routinely sell for a lot. To wit:

Ah, the endless debate. “Worth”, “better”, these subjective terms come up every time this topic is rehashed, which is pretty often. In my experience the W. German guns have exhibited a better fit than current production, by that I mean slide to frame fit in particular. Some don’t give a rat’s ass about that, as a 1911 fan, I do. My W. German P226s were fit better than my 226 Legion, and my 228s were the same, better fit, compared to say my M11. My remaining 228 has a slide to frame fit equal to my TRP 1911, I’ve yet to see a new Sig that comes close *I have no Mastershop pieces, they do not do it for me, so maybe they are equal, and I’d expect them to be for price.

Now worth, there’s the catch for me, when prices skyrocketed on the W. German guns during COVID, I sold off 3 at prices that they were not worth keeping at. I’m down to 2 now, but hold onto them for nostalgic reasons. If you are using them as tools, I can’t imagine saying they are better, but for me, yes some combination of nostalgia, perceived better fitment and principle make them more desirable.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmeister84:
the current debate I'm in is centered around 45acp...

Fair enough, didn't see it mentioned in the OP.

There is also factoring such as how they were made. The W.G. Sigs were almost all fixed sights. Very few '80s P220s had adjustable sights. The W.G. model from the mid '90s allowed for replacing the sights. That is believed by many as the sweet spot ($) of Sig production.

The newer P220s allow for the milling to receive an RMR. Available in all stainless. There is also the added plus of more grip options, aftermarket support, SAO, the X-Six...

I'd give the nod to the newer models.

quote:

Originally posted by .38supersig:

quote:

Originally posted by sigmeister84:
the current debate I'm in is centered around 45acp...

Fair enough, didn't see it mentioned in the OP.

yeah that's my bad, my wife registered on here Friday or Saturday so we could settle the debate and enough time has passed by the time I actually got around to posting this that I'd forgotten how the argument even started.

Truth be told, I'm just pissed I sold my 80s WG and he's still got his

quote:

Originally posted by sigmeister84:

yeah that's my bad, my wife registered on here Friday or Saturday so we could settle the debate and enough time has passed by the time I actually got around to posting this that I'd forgotten how the argument even started.

Truth be told, I'm just pissed I sold my 80s WG and he's still got his

Your wife is a he? Not that there's anything wrong with that. Lol.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

Your wife is a he? Not that there's anything wrong with that. Lol.

hahahhaa no the "he" in this case is my wife's brother that the argument was with

quote:

Originally posted by rburg:
No, but the Swiss ones are. Try finding one.

I'd give up a testicle for a 210

Worth it? To me, not as much though when it comes to the compact I do like and appreciate how well fitted my KE P228 is. But honestly I don't shoot it appreciably better than any of my 9mm P229s...or even my .40S&W P229 for that matter.

I have a German P226 (no 'West') and frankly its fit, finish and performance is not as impressive as a couple of my Exeter-era P226s, though not all of my US P226s from that period are as satisfying (Elite Dark, anyone?). I do like my Mk25 a whole lot for a more recent build, but I draw the line when it comes to looking at and liking those P226s (and P229s) with those mega-sized extractors. Too ugly a scar for my taste, but YMM(definitely)V.

The West German and later, German made guns of the formed flat stock parts is as concrete as todays billit machined guns. Germany has a history out of need for war, of making parts from flat stock for weapons. Witness the STG44 assault rifle. Had they devised a way to make butt stock, bolt and barrel from flat stock, the rifle would be nearly complete of sheet metal parts. Small parts of the Walther P38 are another example of stamped and formed parts. We have seen here years back, the press used to form the Sig Sauer flat stock rear slide piece. It wasnt even a complete form but a shape to be further cut by machine. There definately was much to learn in that process. We were more involved in machining forgings for weapon parts. Well, the Browning machine gun links are a good example of our early use of sheet stock for parts. I submit, even in the age of CNC and billit parts there is, was much to learn of the new process. As mentioned above, extra hand work was involved to make the early Sig pistols fit and function properly. Reliance on close tolerences in machining has made hand work nearly obsolete. It is not the gospel that modern day Sig autos of metals are free of wear and fit issues. Even the more simplified versions, few that remain in Sigs lineup seem a detriment to the company as all things polymer. I would love to go back in time to see the old machinery and talented machinists who produced the early P210s to compare them with CNC P210s of today.

I don't have issues with any of my sigs, from German make to current. I have a much older P220 to which I'm partial, as they were issued us in a former life, and I had a lot of respect for them then, and still do. I carried a P239 for a few years, and still have it, along with a few others. I've had no issues with the pistols; they run. I don't know if it's worth extra for older Sigs, from a practical standpoint, as I appreciate newer offerings, too.

Some items are geeing upgraded, when I get a pistol. Things like Grayguns fat guide rod are going in them, plus some trigger upgrades, sight upgrades, etc. I don't see any difference in accuracy or reliability.

For those of us that don't like the look of a rail on a pistol, they are priceless

quote:

Originally posted by sigmeister84:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

Your wife is a he? Not that there's anything wrong with that. Lol.

hahahhaa no the "he" in this case is my wife's brother that the argument was with

Ha ha!

To me it's a matter of preference. The P220 is my favorite gun of all time. Of my 8 P220's(I recently sold 2 of them to go down to 8) P220's, 3 of them are W German's. Of my 8 remaining I rank them:

W. German nickel
W. German blued
W. German blued
Stainless Steel Elite
Scorpion
Legion
German two tone
SAS

I like all of them, but don't think I could ever part with my WG's...although seeing what PGT posted from GB makes me tempted for just a second; however I know I would regret it if I were to sell it.

This reminds me of a battle I have had occasionally with my wife and her friends. They buy expensive wines when they meet. I challenged them to a blind taste test with cheap stuff and guess what they all funked several times. On the range you aren't going to tell squat. Now if you happen to like aesthetics or history or finish or all the other visual or historical clues have at it.