So I have a number of P320's some standard and some X-series.

So I'm a bit anal about OEM triggers, since owning Walther PPQ's and now PDP'S, which in IMO is the very best striker fired trigger.

My X-series gun triggers are good enough for me but are better than the standard 320 triggers. My standard p320 triggers are a bit spongy, my X-series triggers are crisper.

So has anyone found what the actual differences are in the X-series triggers are, is there anything one can do to make the change from the stock trigger to a X-series trigger? Any of the armorers seen any differences in the modules of the X-series that make them better triggers?

I know there are Apex triggers but for now I don't want non-OEM triggers in my p320's.

It's the same trigger and the same FCU.

The angle and geometry of the trigger can be altered slightly, and the overtravel limited.

A straight trigger, in my opinion, is an improvement.

Put a grayguns trigger in it. Sig has several triggers available from the factory. I believe the Grayguns trigger was one of them at one time, but it still the best trigger out there, especially with the options available (curved, hybrid, straight, with overtravel).

Spring options exist, which change the feel slightly. I prefer the heavier trigger return spring for a more positive reset.

The trigger isn't the only place that improvement can be made; internally there are places one can smooth and polish with zero loss of reliability. Also places that a little grease goes a long way.

Otherwise, as they come from the factory, the trigger is the same. Remember that in the P320, the trigger is just a bit of metal that presses on the trigger draw bar, and the FCU is universal through all the 9mm/.40/.357 Sig models, regardless of the grip module and outward appearance.

If you do end up going with the apex, which is a good trigger, go with the kit, not just the trigger; they're meant to be together and just the trigger doesn't make the difference. The draw bar and overtravel bushing do. I've run perhaps fifteen thousand rounds through a P320 with the apex trigger and it has been very functional and reliable. The Apex has a bit more of a break to it when pressed. It feels a little different, but is a good trigger.

Any of the straight triggers are valid improvements, both in feel and function. With overtravel adjustment (by bushing or overtravel screw), there's a discernable improvement in the way the trigger feels in operation, and in reset.

I have several pistols with the Grayguns competition triggers, each of which have had perhaps 30,000 rounds through the pistol, with not a single incident of failure; the triggers are as consistent as ever, even giving a lot of cycling in dry firing (how many imaginary rounds fired in a zillion?). Grayguns doesn't recommend it for carry, and that's probably a good call, but it does make for a really nice trigger all the same, and the way the P320 is designed, there are options when installing their competition trigger kit (such as retaining the heavier trigger return spring, etc). Likewise, the Apex kit has options. Of the two, the Grayguns is hands-down a nicer trigger, but if I were going to carry one of the two, I'd probably go with the apex. Compete with one of the two, the Grayguns. Preference.

Thanks for your great reply, you added a lot of content. I resisted putting non-OEM triggers in my guns for reasons of liability in the event of having to use them to defend. But I decided that I actually could make non-OEM changes in my range guns but not in my home/carry defense guns. Just wish Sig had Walters PDP trigger in it LOL.

It's good to see the reliability you've had. I would probably choose the Apex Kit first since it's install is less involved/easier to do.

I've had another person substantiate your findings with the good Gray guns trigger but it would be a tougher install (more parts)

Since I'm not competing any more the X-series in my X-compacts etc. are good to go and I'm surprised to hear that the FCU's are the same, the X-trigger feels far crisper/lighter in my 4- x-series compact/carry/X5 guns, I can't imagine that the straight trigger in the X-Series is the reason the trigger feels much crisper and a bit lighter. If that's the case maybe I should just install a sig straight trigger and see if it's like my other X-series and maybe polish a few parts in the FCU and add a bit of grease. The court is still out but you've helped a lot. Thanks

PS Do you know anything about the new Sig gold FCU.if it is better than the stock FCU?

My experience: the "standard" P320 trigger is how you describe; a bit 'spongy', with some creep after the initial stack point prior to the trigger break. Makes little to no difference if the gun is wearing the straight or curved bow. As with many trigger designs, there are slight variations in how much creep and take-up tension from gun to gun.

The Legions, Custom Works FCUs and Custom Works AXG pistols have a distinctly better trigger pull IMHO; far less creep than say, a standard 320F-9-BSS for example. But like other trigger designs there are subtle differences from gun to gun. We currently have the AXG Pro and AXG Classic in stock and in the display case; the Classic comes with a curved bow while the Pro has the straight show. For the trigger snobs on our staff (and in our customer base), to a person the display Classic is the one that has the "better" trigger; very smooth take-up to the wall with virtually no creep prior to break with minimal overtravel to speak of. The display Pro OTOH is a bit more creepy after the initial stack point, and has a bit more grittiness in take-up than the Classic does. Yet both triggers are "Custom Works" triggers. I've noticed similar variances with the Legions as well.

To me this is one of those prime examples of the effect of stacking tolerances. Not all parts are the same. Not all springs are made equally. I'm sure if a SIG gunsmith were to be REALLY ANAL ABOUT IT and was willing to spend the cost-no-object time to test and cherry pick the best bits for the FCU and the rest of the gun, the SIG design can make for truly top-tier striker trigger, which for me right now Canik sets the high bar for strikers (IMHO the triggers in my Caniks--including the one in my "lowly" base TP9SF--are significantly better than that of my PDP or any of my PPQs).

I was very surprised that a sub-$350 pistol (at the time) could have such a superior trigger like the TP9SF does. But there it is. But even with Caniks their triggers also subtly vary from gun to gun within the same model range.

Thanks Monoblock, I've been around a long time and have owned hundreds of guns going back. My Wilson Combats were some of the best. The AXG is next on the list ( the prices are coming down a bit). I was going to purchase a AXG frame but Optics Planet didn't have in stock. (they had the best price) but then thought I might purchase the full AXG gun. I'll see.

You are right there are variations in triggers from the like gun to gun but it's true that my 4 X- Series all feel remarkably the same and my non-XSries are all spongy the same.

As you say, I had a Canik SFX ( whatever the best one was 2/3 years ago) had a fabulous trigger and it came with everything. A lot of gun for the money but their prices are going up now. I generally liked the gun but it finally didn't make the cut.

I think Sig has the ability to produce anything they want as long as it makes a profit but right now they are riding high on the p320's and p365's and their new special models are doing good. The modular gun has got me, all I do is mess around modding/shooting them.

Do you think the new custom Sig FCU's are the way to go and build a gun or simply purchase the AXG gun?

I put either the Sig flat trigger or Grayguns flat trigger in my 320s and they significantly improve the trigger feel. Easy install and no reduction in safety or reliability.

There have been a bunch of small changes made to the P320 over time besides the cosmetics.

I had a 2017 post-update P320 X5 (pre-Legion) that had a terrible creepy spongy trigger from the factory.

My buddy bought an X5 Legion right after they came out (2019)that felt great.

I owned a P320 Pro X-Carry that felt OK.

I now have a P320 Custom Works FCU that came with a great trigger.

What I learned is that there have been incremental changes such as different trigger bars, a spring that was deleted and differences in the shoes.

They are all P320's, but they were all slightly different.

I'm going through the P320 LE armorer class beginning of February. I hope to get some answers on these changes (the LE factory rep was fairly clueless).

quote:

Originally posted by jjc:
I'm surprised to hear that the FCU's are the same, the X-trigger feels far crisper/lighter in my 4- x-series compact/carry/X5 guns, I can't imagine that the straight trigger in the X-Series is the reason the trigger feels much crisper and a bit lighter.

The FCU in the regular 320 and the X-series are indeed the same. The difference in feel of the straight trigger is due to the geometry change of how/where you are placing your finger on the trigger...since the straight trigger face allows more variables.

The FCU of the Legion is basically the factory version of the GGI trigger system

quote:

I've had another person substantiate your findings with the good Gray guns trigger but it would be a tougher install (more parts)

The big difference between the Apex Tactical kit and that from GGI is that Apex includes a replacement trigger bar while the GGI includes a replacement sear.

My personal 320 started as a Compact and has since been modified to a cut down Legion grip module (Carry length) paired with a Pro Cut 4.7" slide (like a M17). The FCU has the GGI sear and springs combined with the Apex FSS bar, straight trigger, and over travel stop

The skeletonized Legion trigger (used in the Custom Works FCU and various CW guns) has a different geometry where it connects to the trigger bar which lightens the pull but increases creep. It's just a change in the leverage point.

I use the Sig Flats in carry and SD guns. I have two CW FCU's for range only guns with the skeletonized.

If you want to reduce weight, the lighter GGI sear springs will help. A lighter trigger return spring can help too but I wouldn't want the weaker reset. I polish the striker tang too - just remove the striker and polish the tang with jewelers rouge and then Flitz. Helps a bit. I haven't polished any sears.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
A lighter trigger return spring can help too but I wouldn't want the weaker reset.

This bears repeating. Don't try to lighten the trigger return spring

quote:

Originally posted by KevH:
There have been a bunch of small changes made to the P320 over time besides the cosmetics.

I had a 2017 post-update P320 X5 (pre-Legion) that had a terrible creepy spongy trigger from the factory.

My buddy bought an X5 Legion right after they came out (2019)that felt great.

I owned a P320 Pro X-Carry that felt OK.

I now have a P320 Custom Works FCU that came with a great trigger.

What I learned is that there have been incremental changes such as different trigger bars, a spring that was deleted and differences in the shoes.

They are all P320's, but they were all slightly different.

I'm going through the P320 LE armorer class beginning of February. I hope to get some answers on these changes (the LE factory rep was fairly clueless).

Thanks. I've had a total of 6-320's now 3-320's
My Xseries have all been good my non x-series all have been spongy. so I'm holding out for some OEM improvements so I can upgrade. I gave some thought to the new FCU but it's EXPENSIVE to start that process.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
I put either the Sig flat trigger or Grayguns flat trigger in my 320s and they significantly improve the trigger feel. Easy install and no reduction in safety or reliability.

Since I found here that the FCU's of the X-Series and the regular fcu's are the same...the first move I'll make is to get the straight trigger especially since it's a easy install and I like it better anyway and hope that will remove the spongy feel. The trigger pull is good for me for defence and since I don't do any competition anymore it works. I guess if I had everything it could be a little lighter but that isn't a must have.

The trigger on the P320 can be lightened with spring changes; the competition kits from Grayguns are quite light. Bruce Gray offers a lightweight trigger return spring with the kit. I chose to use the factory spring, chiefly because I like a little more pulling the trigger back to reset, otherwise my triggers would be even lighter.

I'm holding one of my P320F's with the Grayguns hybrid competition trigger kit. It's very smooth, not at all what I'd call spongy. I have a dog bite on my trigger finger at the moment. The finger is black, swollen, and very painful. Most of my pistols, I can't dry fire, due to the pain. This pistol, with the Grayguns competition trigger, I can.

The trigger isn't unsafe. I'm sure that for limiting his own liability, Bryce Gray recommends against installing it in a duty or carry pistol, especially in light of the litigation surrounding the P320 presently. That said, because there's trigger safety and the P320 amounts to carrying a cocked and unlocked single action pistol, everything revolves around the user protecting that light, smooth trigger.

There's a short take-up that might be used for prepping or staging the trigger, before resistance begins, and a little trigger travel before striker release, but no real wall or break when that happens. The reset is short, and a little resistance, then another release. No break or wall, just a pull through and the pistol fires. One must positively pull the trigger, but I don't think there's anything that could be done to make it much nicer or smoother (other than using the lighter trigger return spring that came with the kit).

The apex kit is different, with a discernible wall and break.

I wouldn't recommend mixing the trigger bar from the apex, with another manufacturers kit, and it isn't necessary. I experimented with it, as I'd red accounts; I wasn't satisfied with the results, and with installation of the Grayguns trigger kit, I doubt anything else one does will have any effect but to either decrease safety, or decrease trigger quality. One isn't going to improve it much over where that kits gets it, if at all.

My Walther triggers are nice, but rough in comparison to the P320 with the Grayguns competition trigger. It's a matter of degrees.