A well structured grip that allows the gun to return to point of aim on its own and good disciplined trigger control that includes NOT pinning the trigger to the rear will negate any real concerns over bore axis.

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Originally posted by DanH:

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Originally posted by RichardC:

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Originally posted by cas:
There's a certain popular modification to certain pistols that has a detrimental effect of accuracy.

Out with it, man! No need to be coy, Roy.

Someone should bring that old add up to date with a new RDS?

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Someone should bring that old add up to date with a new RDS?

And put one on both sides, since everything has to be ambidextrous these days!

Bruce Gray (GGI) has noted that the 1911 has a high bore axis, but has collected more championship wins than any other pistol.

With respect to the people who can detect a difference in shooting impulse, and to those engineers who sought a more optimum design...I see no reason to be concerned.

Most arguments (meaning those based on a premise, a supposition, a starting point) become part of a person's belief system. Any rejection of that premise results in a person feeling in some way harmed. Did I make a good decision choosing a low bore axis pistol? What will the guys say? I did a lot of research, and now this contradiction? So, it is easier to retain the belief, the premise, the argument and to defend it.

For me, I shoot better when I focus on true basic mechanics. High bore axis, low bore axis, no matter. Did I grip properly? Did I trigger properly? Did I position arms properly to respond to that impulse?

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Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
Bruce Gray (GGI) has noted that the 1911 has a high bore axis, but has collected more championship wins than any other pistol.

Thank you for this. Looking at the chart, that is what I thought since the 1911 bore axis is not that much lower than the P series SIGs. And, the guy who first leveled that critique at SIG to me was a big 1911 guy, so......

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Originally posted by DaBigBR:
A well structured grip that allows the gun to return to point of aim on its own and good disciplined trigger control that includes NOT pinning the trigger to the rear will negate any real concerns over bore axis.

Check!

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Originally posted by SIGWolf:

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Originally posted by DaBigBR:
A well structured grip that allows the gun to return to point of aim on its own and good disciplined trigger control that includes NOT pinning the trigger to the rear will negate any real concerns over bore axis.

Check!

I cannot overstate the cancer that pinning the trigger to the rear is. A lot of people are taught to shoot that way. It is absolutely the least efficient way to work a trigger.

This video with Scott Jedlinski and Jared Reston is a pretty good demo of why it doesn't work:

https://youtu.be/xTt6Rp2HZzk?si=WPnpmCk_y63XFmwn

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Originally posted by cslinger:
My take is bore axis absolutely makes a difference and can be felt. Something like a CZ75 is easier for me to shoot flatter.

I've maybe 60K rounds through 75's derivative, Shadow 2. Three units that I've owned all had different slide weights through postmarket modifications so I did my best to observe the cycling differences there. I also shoot Glocks a bit, and 1911 and 2011 some. What I don't particularly understand is how to decide that bore axis matters without being able to adjust for differences in slide weights, barrel weights, frame weights, frame weight distributions, slide travel distances, recoil spring rates, hammer springs and their effect on slide unlocking, and whatever else affects gun's cycling behavior.

I do actually have a physics degree, but it’s not needed to understand bore axis. The more distance between your grip and the bore, the more leverage the recoil has to lift the muzzle. It’s really that simple.

There’s obviously a ton of other factors that go into a flat shooting handgun, but that’s how bore axis works.

Personally a low to mid bore axis pistol just points better for me before even pulling the trigger.

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Originally posted by Rodfac:

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Yes, the Glock is about .52 less than the P320, but how much difference does that really make?

Yes but they make up for the lower bore axis with a worse grip angle

Not to mention the abominable trigger on any Glock. The out of the box trigger on any Sig is so significantly better than that on a similar Glock, that it more than makes up for any perceived Glock advantage in "bore axis" height. Best regards, Rod

For a carry gun, I’ll take a Glock’s trigger over that of a P320 any day. My personal opinion is that the P320’s trigger is good for nothing. I don’t like it on a carry gun due to its fully cocked state with a relatively short travel. It also pales in comparison to any kind of decent target trigger. Not nearly light or crisp enough for anything serious at the range.

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Originally posted by bac1023:
I do actually have a physics degree, but it’s not needed to understand bore axis. The more distance between your grip and the bore, the more leverage the recoil has to lift the muzzle. It’s really that simple.

I don't have a physics degree. If there is more leverage available for the recoil to lift the muzzle, would that also mean that there is more leverage for recoil spring to return the muzzle down?

Bore axis matters more when there is a loose or weak grip on the weapon. When I switched to thumbs-forward shooting and saw in slowed down video that with proper technique my muzzle flip disappeared almost completely and repeat hits were less spread out, I was far less concerned with bore axis then ever before.

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Originally posted by YVK:

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Originally posted by bac1023:
I do actually have a physics degree, but it’s not needed to understand bore axis. The more distance between your grip and the bore, the more leverage the recoil has to lift the muzzle. It’s really that simple.

I don't have a physics degree. If there is more leverage available for the recoil to lift the muzzle, would that also mean that there is more leverage for recoil spring to return the muzzle down?

Sure it does, but the muzzle has already risen at that point. Guns engineered to “return to zero” are a pleasure to shoot, regardless of the amount of muzzle rise taking place. Lots of factors involved in that though, including the spring.