Which would you carry? Why?
The m11 is winning me over because it’s a little more compact, yet still has 15 round capacity. It’s also more serviceable because of sig custom shop. It can be customized from sig and night sights are readily available and installable.

Are you saying the Beretta is less servicable?

And what exactly is customized by SIG CS on a M11-A1? AEP? SSP? FSP? Swapping sights? Swapping trigger? Slide refinishing? Those are about the extent of "custom" works they do, which are not custom anything. I suppose all these things can also be done on the Beretta by Beretta factory?

There is no doubt the Beretta is an excellent pistol. But for carry use, its the M-11 all the way. Less bulk.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
There is no doubt the Beretta is an excellent pistol. But for carry use, its the M-11 all the way. Less bulk.

I agree. Both are excellent. But, the only reason to prefer the SIG for carry is the smaller size.

Why not the Beretta 92 Compact? Seems closer in size to the M11, and MecGar has released 15 round magazines for it. Not to mention, the excellent price you can get on the Beretta Compacts now.

quote:

Originally posted by blueinterceptor:
Which would you carry? Why?
The m11 is winning me over because it’s a little more compact, yet still has 15 round capacity. It’s also more serviceable because of sig custom shop. It can be customized from sig and night sights are readily available and installable.

True comparison would be a M11A1 vs a Beretta 92 Compact.

Beretta 92 will be as customizable or more than the SIG in every area but sights.

Why Beretta has resisted a dovetailed or some sort of removable front sight is beyond me.

Even then, I own 3 Beretta 92 variants and 1 SIG P220.

But for your question, M11 vs Beretta 92 full size, the SIG will be easier to conceal.

Any particular reason for those two options? One's a compact gun meant for concealed carry while the other is a full-size service pistol. Do you already own both, and trying to decide what to carry? Are you going to buy one or the other? What do you already have and carry?

Of the options listed, I would go for the M11A1 only because of size. While a full-size 92 can be carried concealed with the right gear and clothing, it'll be easier with the M11A1. If it matters, you can get MecGar 18-round mags for the full-size 92 guns; they're what I use in my 92FS.

I would also agree that the 92 Compact would be a better comparison. In that case, I would go with the 92 since I'm familiar with the platform, even if night sights aren't a good option (while nice to have, I don't consider them essential on a defensive pistol, but that's just my opinion).

Have you considered the Beretta PX4 Compact or Compact Carry? Last year I tried a Sig P229 and a PX4 Compact side-by-side at a rental range, and, for me, the PX4 won hands down. The only downside was the slick grip frame, which I resolved with a set of Talon Grips. And there are lots of custom options for the PX4. Mine has the Ameriglo Compact Carry night sights, low profile slide stop/release, Stealth decocker lever on the right and Carry decocker lever on the left, a D hammer spring, large mag release button, and a spurless hammer, plus the aforementioned Talon Grips. Works great for me. The Compact Carry has some of those features, plus a Cerakote finish and a competition trigger (IOW, a better SA pull). You can even get a TJIAB from Langdon, have him do a full trigger job, or even order one from him with the trigger job already done.

I'm not saying you should get the PX4 Compact, but you may want to consider it if you haven't already.

Besides the obvious size difference, it's a personal preference as to which hammer fired, non polymer pistol you like to carry. I carry the M11-A1 or a P229 most every day. It feels very balanced and points instinctively for me. I like the position of the decocker much better as well. I do carry my Wilson 92G Brigadier some during the winter months in a shoulder holster.

Even vs the 92compact the M11/P229 is easier to carry IMO although neither feel particularly small.

As for customizing. Geez folks screw with there berettas like almost no other. Plenty of customization there.

No real bad choice vs either barring personal pref.

I too think it is an odd comparison. I'd rather carry (and have many, many times) a P226 than a model 92, so a P228/M11 is no contest.

Both great guns though, but I'd get an LTT if I was going Beretta, the price will be about the same as a new M11.

If it is about having a military issue service replica, again M11 all the way as it was selected for Army CID investigators as being easier to carry than the big 'ol M9.

I own both a Beretta 92FS and a P229.

As mentioned several times above the M11A1 (P229) is a compact and the M92 is a full sized service pistol. So you are kind of comparing apples to oranges.

What is the desired use? For CCW, the 229 is smaller and easier to conceal. I also like the smaller grip circumference of the 229 out of the box. For target/competition the longer sight radius and shorter trigger reset of the berretta might be preferable.

The M92 is very user serviceable with the exception of the front sight. But, If you want night sights for the 92 they can be added to the pistol or you could purchase a 92A1 with a dove tailed front sight and swap it yourself.

I've found that with a D spring and LTT Grips the Model 92 is a very sweet pistol. I added a grayguns short reset trigger kit and Hogue G10 grips to my 229 I liked it a little bit more, but the 229 had a heavier trigger pull than the 92.

quote:

Originally posted by blueinterceptor:
Which would you carry? Why?
The m11 is winning me over because it’s a little more compact, yet still has 15 round capacity. It’s also more serviceable because of sig custom shop. It can be customized from sig and night sights are readily available and installable.

M11A1 wins as easy as 1, 2, 3.

1. Slide mounted safeties are a bad idea for both ergonomics and reliability. It is not ideal to have extra moving parts on the most mechanically violent part of the pistol.

2. I prefer Sig's locking mechanism to the more fragile Walther P38 inspired locking block found in the Beretta. Inferior technology in 1938, remains inferior in 2019.

3. 92 ergonomics are lacking to say the least. Even in U.S. military trials the 92 was found to be less confidence inspiring in the hands of shooters and shooters accuracy reflected it.

That's this shooters opinion.

I always preferred the 92 over the sig design. My ideal comparison would have been the m11 vs the 92g centurion and if beretta still made the centurion I’d go with that. Sig will do the advanced enhancement package on their guns which smooths out the trigger and lowers both the double and single action trigger pulls. Further unless you have already had the sights drilled for night sights on the standard 92 front sights there is no good way (imho) to get night sights. I don’t want some aftermarket monkeying around with the sights.
Further the m11 can fill a dual role as it is more concealable.
I maybe wrong but it strikes me as sig’s factory service is more willing and capable of doing
Things to support their pistols. They can fix, refinish, modify and change the night sights on their guns in one place. Where beretta frankly doesn’t seem to offer many of the services I’ve listed above.

I’ve thought about the beretta compact and I’ve had three, but the grip was a little too small for me and after owning a 92g the fs strikes me as inferior. While my big hands can manipulate the slide’s decocker, the grip decocker appears more user friendly and intuitive.

Of course these are my opinions and thank you for sharing yours

I don't think you can make a fair comparison of both of those pistols, as the Beretta is a full size gun and not as compact. The M9A3 would be a better comparison, but again, it is big like a P226. They are both excellent pistols but with the 2 chosen, the Sig wins in my opinion.

As far as, moving parts (safety/decocker)in the Beretta's slide, I have yet to see one be problematic and they have been around a long time. The Beretta is a great design although I would prefer a frame mounted safety/decocker as on the Sig.

quote:

Originally posted by Robert Johnson:
1. Slide mounted safeties are a bad idea for both ergonomics and reliability. It is not ideal to have extra moving parts on the most mechanically violent part of the pistol.

An alternative perspective:




Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA8btM5RFp4

I carried and used P228's for a long time. Switched to Glocks and SAO for the most part for some reasons, and recently started moving back to SA/DA (or TDA as the kidz call it these days). Recently I've gone to the Wilson Berettas. I traded a 1911 for a BrigTac and wow. Shot it immediately well enough that I decided to try more. Bought a Wilson Centac Vertec which I really like and will likely become my IDPA gun. And lastly decided to try a compact with a Langdon TacticalTrigger Job in a Bag. I've still got one classic 229 with Bruce Gray's trigger job in a bag equivalent (don't remember it's name and it's not on their website anymore?).

Right now my preference is to the Beretta Compact. But not by any huge margin. The Compact is a G-conversion, so decocker only. Overall size is very consistent to the P229 with only minor differences. The big difference is really the grip. While it holds the same number of rounds, it is quite a bit shorter as the mag effectively fits "higher" into the gun. The overall height of the gun though is about the same. For those that don't know, Langdon has been working with Beretta(I think) and mec-gar and they recently released a 15 round mag for the compact that's getting good early feedback.

Ergos: Pointability is largely a wash. Both do great. I prefer the Sig decocker but don't much care either way. I always trained left hand decock anyway.
Trigger: Edge to the beretta with the TJIB vs the Sig with the Grayguns. Not by a lot here either. The DA is better on the beretta, the SA a little better on the SIG.
Carry: Both about the same.
Sights: On the larger berettas, edge to the Brig and Centac. They've got Wilson rears and hiviz dovetail rear. On the Compact edge to Sig. I've installed the XRays and they are nice. The beretta compact has a fixed sight that I'm having drilled for FO.

It all came down to: For some reason I shoot the berettas better than most of my other guns. I mean, after one session I was shooting my beretta almost as well (a little slower on first and splits but just as accurate) as a Wilson EDC X9 that I have a fair number of rounds on. And I admit, I've lost some attraction with SIG in the Cohen years, while I think Beretta, Wilson, and Ernest Langdon have done a great job bringing the 92 platform back from the dead. But I'm kinda like 55% on the beretta vs the sig. I'd be happy shooting either. I'm sure I helped a ton.

If you do look for a Beretta compact, I'd wait a bit. Ernest Langdon keeps hinting that he's got something coming. I suspect(maybe hope is a better word?) something like a centurion slide on a compact so you get the 15 round compact with the nicer slide that's a little beefier up top and has dovetails for sights.

N

The centurion slide and compact slide are the same size. It’s the frame on a centurion that’s got a full size grip. And thus takes a full size magazine. They could update it to the dovetail front sight which would be a plus.
I wish beretta would release a centurion with out rails and a dovetailed front sight.

PS. I swapped out my Centurion Tactical slide onto my Compact Carry for a bit. It's just about my ideal gun, but I can't justify buying two expensive guns to get one.

Now I am curious, recently obtained a M11-A1 and I do not like it nearly as well as my non rail, 229 40SW, German made police turn in. One of the Beretta Compacts made in Italy sounds pretty interesting. I have no problem with the slide mounted decocker or the lock up system for the 9mm.

quote:

Originally posted by Mountain Walker:
Now I am curious, recently obtained a M11-A1 and I do not like it nearly as well as my non rail, 229 40SW, German made police turn in. One of the Beretta Compacts made in Italy sounds pretty interesting. I have no problem with the slide mounted decocker or the lock up system for the 9mm.

What don’t you like about the m11 vs the 229. Aren’t they essentially the same gun except for caliber