quote:

Originally posted by ScooterX:
Another good example of not focused on US sales is the lack of a true subcompact (pocket) pistol. I would guess the hottest market in the last few years.

This is true of the commercial market, but the OP asked about military & police. Sub and micro compact pistols barely register a blip on their radar.

I think because SIG was quick to build a factory in America, so between one in Europe and one in US, they can cover any ordering issues such as need to order a pistol made in the US. They can also cover supply issues if needed, and they were quick to come out with many different models. HK seems to just never has gotten mainstream in the US police pistols. HK's focus as far as the military and police market seem to be focused on SMG's and long guns. As for Walther, well they always seem to miss the mark in one way or another.

Short answer: PRICE.

HK and Walther pistols, until recently, have been prohibitively expensive.



Long answer: stuff and things.

A few things came together in the 80's that changed the US handgun market. Early in the decade revolvers ruled. There were, in my opinion, three main factors that contributed to the rise of the semi-auto and the downfall of the revolver. The first was the US army's XM9 trails. The second was the law enforcement's transition from revolvers to pistols. The third is that autos became a more viable choice for self defense due to the increased reliability of newer models, and improvement in the performance of JHPs.

The XM9 trials brought forth a slew of new designs, and allowed the cream to rise to the top. As we all know the Beretta and the SIG/Sauer were the crème de la crème. Also competing were the Walther P-88 and the HK's P7 m13 and VP70. The P226's high showing gave SIG/Sauer a lead over Walther and HK in the public eye.

When the Police transitioned the leading players were Smith & Wesson, Beretta, and SIG/Sauer. Other than the New Jersey State Police (HK P7 M8), And the US Forest Service (HK P9S) I can't think of any major US LE angencies adopting either an HK or a Walther.

As too my third point, there isn't much to say other than as evidenced by the XM9 program SIG/Sauer had the lead in reliability at the time.

SIG/Sauer's dominance was thus established.


A few things came together in the 90's that changed the US handgun market yet again. The first was the .40 S&W, the second was the rise and acceptance of the polymer frame, and the third was magazine capacity restrictions.

The HK USP was one of if not the first pistol designed around the .40 caliber, it was, of course, also polymer framed. Where the P7 cost was about double that a P226 the USP closed the price gap with SIG/Sauer. The lower price did not last long, but helped move HK somewhat into the mainstream.

The P99 was Walther's modern polymer pistol. It too closed the price gap. It was, however, a bit too late to the market. It arrived just in time for the ten round magazine restriction. This along with it's quirky character traits doomed it to underground status. Possibly exacerbating Walther's inroads with the P99 was the fact that at the time S&W was Walther's importer. This led to market confusion in the thought that S&W owned Walther. S&W also had a competing line with their M&P.

SIG's first few polymer guns did not reach the upper echelon sales wise, but, again with the help of the US Army, they hit one out of the park with the P320/M17.

In recent years both HK with the VP9-B, and Walther with the PPQ M2, offer competitively priced, reliable pistols with conventional controls. This however has not been enough to allow then to catch up to SIG.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: lechiffre,

SIG CEO Ron Cohen.

Agree...have been looking for some articles on the web to confirm this about Cohen's role in Sig's ascendancy but can only find things related to last November's issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
SIG CEO Ron Cohen.

Today is 08/22/19. As of today, HK doesn't have an RDS enabled pistol available. They have shown it on their German website three years ago, and still have not released it.
HK has just given up a contract with a largest US LE agency without even an attempt to defend it.
They have made a pistol directed at a competition market and released [parts of it] in such a way that it can't be used in said competition.
This is all you need to know about HK's market responsiveness. They deserve to be beat into submission.

H&K and Walther had nothing to compete with the P220 and P226, nor did they act like they were in a competition.

quote:

Originally posted by colt_saa:

quote:

Originally posted by n9nwo:
Other than Glock (not German but Germanic) Sig Sauer has come to dominate military and police pistols. How did they accomplish this over Walther and HK?

Greg,
What are your thoughts on why SIG is in Dominance?

Not everyone would recognize a callsign. In many ways it is more unique than a name.

I am not sure why Sig is dominate. But they do have a very large market share.