Other than Glock (not German but Germanic) Sig Sauer has come to dominate military and police pistols. How did they accomplish this over Walther and HK?

Personally, I think it was better Powerpoint presentations; but first you'd have to define "dominance".

quote:

Originally posted by n9nwo:
Other than Glock (not German but Germanic) Sig Sauer has come to dominate military and police pistols. How did they accomplish this over Walther and HK?

Greg,
What are your thoughts on why SIG is in Dominance?

Whatever meets the minimum requirements, including production and distribution requirements, at lowest price almost always gets the contract unless kickbacks, favors, office politics are also major factor in play.

Sig does not dominate the police market. Lol

quote:

Originally posted by sg:
Sig does not dominate the police market. Lol

They probably do, over Walther and HK. That's what OP is talking about.

HK has a weird business model. They work like spiders waiting for the food to come to them. Walther seems to run business like George Bush Sr. runs a reelection campaign. Wants but won't do what it takes. SIG goes out, kills dinner and drags it home.

Well, Walther tries. It's just that Walther wants to innovate everything, and not everybody is necessarily as impressed with their innovations as much as their engineers are. Remember the decocker on the P99? It's not a bad idea, especially if you want less stuff sticking out of the pistol, but reaching it ain't necessarily easy. As for HK, their DA triggers and their pricing have spoken volumes for years.

quote:

Originally posted by colt_saa:

quote:

Originally posted by n9nwo:
Other than Glock (not German but Germanic) Sig Sauer has come to dominate military and police pistols. How did they accomplish this over Walther and HK?

Greg,
What are your thoughts on why SIG is in Dominance?

How do you know his name is Greg?

Sometimes, you just know...(about pistol selection, not about some guy named Greg)

Tony.

Greg is the name of the FBI agent who monitors all of colt_saa's online correspondence.

One glaring issue, at least for the N American market, is that Sig has been happy to sell pistols w/ button mag releases where Walther and HK have clung to their paddles.

Walther released their PPQ M2 w/ the button in 2013, but the PPQ w/ its sensitive trigger is marketed as a special forces pistol, not a LE duty one.

HK didn't release a button mag release until this year, and it's only available on their VP9 "People's Pistol".

I have an HK w/ the paddle, and I like it, but it's an acquired taste. I also like the bar-dot Von Stavenhagen sights that were OEM on 80-90s era German-made Sigs, but those too are an acquired taste. It's easier to sell guns w/ 3-dot sights than force a niche taste on the masses.

In the bigger picture, that's why Sig is flourishing where Walther and HK are floundering. Sig responds to market demands where Walther and especially HK take the traditional German approach of, "We know what's best for you."

It's generalization that American manufacturers adapt to the consumer, where as German compnanies expect the consumer to adapt to the manufacturer.

quote:

Originally posted by bashman:

quote:

Originally posted by colt_saa:

quote:

Originally posted by n9nwo:
Other than Glock (not German but Germanic) Sig Sauer has come to dominate military and police pistols. How did they accomplish this over Walther and HK?

Greg,
What are your thoughts on why SIG is in Dominance?

How do you know his name is Greg?

His member ID is a ham radio callsign and name and address can be looked up easily via online ham radio callsign lookup unless he picked that member ID for some other reason.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Greg is the name of the FBI agent who monitors all of colt_saa's online correspondence.

Greg used to monitor him. Since then he’s been transferred over to Homeland and that guys name is Curtis.

Guys, this is rude. This is a new member. The man did not ask to have his real name used and he certainly didn't ask for this "FBI" banter. Let's stick to the subject, please.

First...Sig is American now. They have had an American presence for much longer. They listen to what the American Market wants and then they give it to them and a decent price.

HK, not so much

The simple reason why SIG has far surpassed Walther and HK in terms of sales is not quality but SIG's management. SIG is run by people who actually want to sell firearms. Walther and HK don't really seem like they want to manufacturer what people are interested in buying. They just focus on their European govt. sales.

Sig moved their main manufacturing to the US, Walther and HK did not.
On a side note, uninteresting as it may be, the large majority of new contracts from the state police agencies in Germany went to either Walther or HK.

Another good example of not focused on US sales is the lack of a true subcompact (pocket) pistol. I would guess the hottest market in the last few years.

quote:

In the bigger picture, that's why Sig is flourishing where Walther and HK are floundering. Sig responds to market demands where Walther and especially HK take the traditional German approach of, "We know what's best for you."

This is my guess also. I believe it was LDD who posted a thread or a long reply somewhat recently analyzing H&K’s approach to marketing, R&D, and customer support. He even mentioned that they wouldn’t sell PSG-1 (or was it MSG-90?) stocks because people would put them on HK 91’s. A US company would probably say “uhhh, yeah... why not?” There was another anecdote about H&K engineers being mortified at the thought of US SOF units modifications to the MP7’s they had fielded when they met with them, as if it were somehow possible to field-expedient improve superior Teutonic engineering.

H&K and Walther will always sell well in Germany. Because. Should they choose to actually pursue the demands of the US market, they could prove very competitive here, and likely, their only real limitation at this point is their mindset.