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Well today I tore the web of my shooting hand with a J Frame Airweight 38 spc, shooting Buffalo Bore's 158 gr +P Heavy full lead LSWC-GC. That mofo kicks. I would have kept it as my normal carry ammo, since the last time I tested it quite some time ago I got acceptable grouping, but for some strange reason this time I couldn't hit jack squat with it, even at 7 yds. So I cleaned myself up, and immediately tested the gun again with Speer 135 Gr. 38 spc +P "Short Barrel" ammo, and got perfect groups with a 6 oclock hold. So my new carry ammo for this gun is the Speer round. Though I won't carry this BB in this gun, I still like the round, but will only consider it for other 38 guns with more weight and bigger handles. One thing I can't figure out, is why I was able to shoot that hot round a few years ago, but no longer. It may just be my age, but I can't say for sure. I've never been afraid of heavy recoil, and I love shooting my 375 Holland just for fun (the factory stock fits great, guess I'm just lucky), but perhaps age has caught up with my ability to shoot some types of guns. When I think about it, I probably would have had a good time with 454 Casull if it had existed when I was twenty something, since I used to play with lots of hot 44 mag hand loads regularly during the magnum craze in my teens, but these days I don't ever want to shoot one, so maybe I've hit the wall with the J Frame shooting that particular round. One thing I DO care about MORE these days - is hitting what I'm aiming at, and doing so efficiently with good technique, which means formal training. This is normal logic in defensive shooting training, but hell, I sure appreciate it more now more than ever, and will be where most of my emphasis will be in the foreseeable future. Any similar experiences ? Please tell me how you've handled this, and your general philosophy on the subject marching forward. Lover of the US Constitution Wile E. Coyote School of DIY Disaster | ||
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WTF would you? There are much better choices. Read Demaio. A hoe is a hole. Get some 158 gr lead or less, and enjoy. The damn few "points" you gain from "premium" ammo aren't worth a bloody hand. | |||
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| I made it so far, now I'll go for more  |
Get something you can get good double taps with. The big BOOM ain't worth squat if you can't do decent double taps. Bob I am no expert, but think I am sometimes. | |||
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Double taps with a smith and Wesson 642 air Weight? That will take some practice! "Like a horse has its rider, and the sky has its moon, a man has his loneliness, mistaken as pride." -Longmire | |||
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"Member" |
"A day without blood is like a day without sunshine!"  _____________________________________________________ Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911. | |||
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Certified All Positions |
I assume we're talking a snubby? In this case, the gun really, really wants to rotate. Heavier grain is going to do more than hot loading, because with speed the bullet is out of the gate so quickly. But with heavier bullets, more of that Oompa is going to be turned into not just recoil, but rotational motion. All pistols do this to a degree, but it is amplified with snubbies. I don't expect "double taps" from a snub nose, using any ammo. Also, if it's dinner plate accurate at 50ft, that is more than good enough. I also carry a snubby because I can pocket carry, and shoot right through my clothes if necessary. I like Cor-bon for my snub nosed, and many of their offerings are in the lower-grain and speedier area. Even if we're talking a standard size revolver, Buffalo Bore makes some unnecessarily overpowered stuff. I mean, that's their shtick. Great, if people find loads that they and their weapon can handle, but it's not necessary to go Buffalo Bore, you sure can, if you can. Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP | |||
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I once put 5 rounds of the BB 158gr LSWCHP +P through my 642. Never again! I do like the standard pressure version, though. Controllable for me. And even though it's standard pressure (according to BB) it still produces the velocity of the FBI load produced by other makers that established a good track record. FWIW, even when I had steel K-frames I still preferred the standard pressure BB load over the +P version because I was noticeably quicker on follow-up shots. My current carry load for the 642 is the Speer SB-GDHP, but I'd be fine carrying the BB standard pressure FBI load. "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." Sherlock Holmes | |||
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| His diet consists of black coffee, and sarcasm.  |
The most powerful load in the world does no good if you can't hit anything with it in the first place. If a gun or load is unpleasant, let alone painful, injurious or debilitating, to shoot, you aren't going to practice with it. If this is the gun you're going to carry the most or go to first, it needs the most practice, does it not? | |||
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| Freethinker |
Power is the ability to do work, and in a defensive firearm the desired work to be done is to cause damage to one’s target. The more power available, the greater the potential damage: “Ye canna change the laws of physics, Captain.” The problem, as Isaac Newton pointed out long ago, is that power works both ways. More effect on the target, more effect on the shooter. The 44 Magnum round used to be my favorite handgun cartridge, and I spurned anything less powerful as hardly worth my interest. That was then, 30-40 years ago, this is now. When I fired a Glock 17 a couple of weeks ago it hurt my hand. And not just a little. I still shoot SIGs chambered for 9mm, 357 SIG, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP with no problem, so there is obviously something about the Glock that doesn’t suit me besides the power of the 9mm Parabellum cartridge. The reason some guns hurt my hands these days is evidently due to the arthritis that has finally caught up to me, and I can only assume that things will continue to get worse. I haven’t fired my scandium alloy S&W 340PD in a while; I should probably do so to see how that feels these days. ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
For years, I carried a Model 638 Bodyguard loaded with Speer GD 135 grain +P. I didn't shoot it a lot in any one session. I'd put it in my range bag and after finishing up with whatever I was shooting at the range, I'd pull out the Bodyguard, fire five rounds, reload, fire five more. It was easy to carry and in terms of reliability in a pocket pistol, I could do no better, but I became tired of it slapping my palm when I fired it. Also, I did not possess what you might call a high degree of confidence in my ability to hit anything with it beyond a few yards away, except in single action mode. It was never a fun gun to shoot and when you add up all that, it was time to look at other options. I ended up with a Glock G42, for a number of very good reasons. It took some time to gain confidence in the reliability of the pistol and it took some tweaking but after close to a thousand rounds through it, and with proper load selection, I have a new pocket pistol. ____________________________________________________ "I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023 | |||
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I have never understood the preoccupation with airweight snubs. My go to J is a model 36. The extra ounces carried are not even noticed until you get to the range and discover how much easier they are to shoot effectively. When people talk about buying a snub for carry I generally encourage them to go all steel. | |||
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Recoil issues aside, punishing an airweight revolver is likely to cause accelerated frame wear and to damage the handgun. I frequently put a S&W 642 in my pocket, and I use the Gold Dot short barrel load. It's low flash and not excessive. In such a light pistol, using the Buffalo Bore rounds is more likely to unseat the bullet and cause a malfunction. The top strap on that pistol will not take the same abuse that a steel pistol will. It's rated for plus P, but personally I don't put much through the pistol. I find that with typical commercial loadings like the Gold Dot, it's more than enough, and for range work, standard .38 special is just fine. It's an ultralight .38, not a .44 magnum. With .38 spl loads, I can unload the 642 fairly quickly. I won't leave a mel-gibson smiley face on the target, but everything will go center mass. A boot grip on the small j-frames makes the hand cock forward creating a more secure grip. I find that I can double tap or mozambique just fine with it. I don't know that I'd do that with Buffalo Bore rounds, but I'd save them for a weightier pistol. Most likely wouldn't carry them at all. As for firing through the pocket, if someone plans on that, bear in mind that it gets really hot in the pocket. I tried firing them from inside a sleeve or pouch and pocket to experience the effects, and it's unpleasant. The extra time taken to withdraw the pistol from the pocket is worth it, especially given the difficulty in making any level of accuracy from an enclosure at anything but point blank range. | |||
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My experience as well. I've had a M60 2" since 1975 and just use the old "FBI" 158 gr +P LHP or Nyclad. No pocket carry. As a BUG in a LH belt holster, ankle holster or an old Safariland upside down shoulder holster. Forty years ago when I had eyes, joints that didn't creak and hair, I used to be able to get hits on an IPSC sized target at 100 yards. That's the whole target, not the A-zone. Them days are gone forever, along with the hair. To state the obvious, they are designed as a close-up last ditch weapon and fill that niche very well. Depending on your use, the Pachmayr Compac grips make a big difference in shootability. I still prefer my customized Herrett's wood though. FWIW, Ayoob likes the Speer GD 135 as the best .38 Spl load for snubbies. Regarding shooting through a pocket. In the early 1990's a friend of mine had some fun during our weekly defensive group shoot. He had an old polyester suit jacket and shot his J-frame from the pocket. Only problem was that he caught fire when the polyester ignited. ______________________ An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing. --Nicholas Murray Butler | |||
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I was firearms instructor during the last heydays of the revolver. The choice of off duty or BUG was a snub. When I instituted a reload drill into our quals, lots of guys could not make it. Why? Difficulty with the non full length extraction. Did this invalidate using the snub as a defensive weapon? Nope. You just have to work with the gun more. And understand the guns shortcomings and strengths. High pressure ammo? Nope. I once saw a Taurus Model 85 explode. Impressive! Keep your ammo choices consistent with what the gun was originally designed for. Proper ammo makes the gun easier to practice with and become confident with. And the boot type grip is a must! Short sight radius? Yep. Keep your practice and engagement distance real. 7 yards for me. No more. Reloading. Not the snubbies strong suit. Takes lots of practice. The small cylinder is a challenge with speed loaders. If this sound anti-snub, I am not. I have a 442 and carry it often. The main advantages to snubs are ease of concealment, carry safety, acceptable power and easy to employ quickly. Ammo for me is the GD short barrel or my rapidly dwindling stock of Federal NyClad. Backed by one speed loader or speed strip. Wish Federal would produce it again! End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles | |||
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Same could be applied to any gun.
Agreed. I'm still hoarding the few boxes of Nyclads I have left. An alternative I've thought about checking out is the Winchester Defend load, which is a standard pressure 130gr JHP. As far as snubby reloads, giving that short extractor rod a good whack while the muzzle is pointing up does a good job of ejecting spent cases. FWIW, I use the Michael deBethencourt reloading technique. I've gotten good ejection even with brass-cased BB ammo. "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." Sherlock Holmes | |||
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| Freethinker |
Something I figured out on my own decades ago when the S&W model 10 was my duty weapon. I didn’t figure it out immediately, but after I did, I could only wonder why it hadn’t become a standard practice long before. I tried passing it on to others, but I never found anyone who seemed particularly concerned about rapid reloads in those days. Of course, I was little more than a kid who had never written a gun magazine article or book, gone on safari, or won any of the big competitions of the era, so I suppose it was understandable. ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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It's the way I was trained on a revolver and the way I still extract cases. The exception was a tactical reload i which the extractor was pushed enough to pull two spent cases clear with fingertips and pop two more in from a dump pouch or speed strip. | |||
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I never liked the heavy stuff in my Airweights. I have a 642 that goes with me most places that it legally can, and it's loaded with Winchester White Box 125 grain JHPs. It says they are +P at 945 fps. I can manage them just fine. I do have speed loaders for them but it's usually a speed strip than accompanies me. I can reload 2+2+1 with relatively decent speed. | |||
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