Got a chance to pick up a barely used LE pistol at a decent price.

I have no experience with the DAK.

(This will be the return to the Sig World after a significant absence.)

Thoughts on the DAK?

Has been my issue for 15 years, has been a good sidearm. Think of a square revolver with consistent trigger pull and hi capacity

Ours is 40

“Sig Sauer P229 DAK 357 Sig”: My daily carry gun.

I could post a long dissertation about the DAK trigger system, and perhaps I will depending upon other comments, but in short I believe that the gun is the most suitable concealed carry self-defense weapon available. The cartridge is the best of the big four defensive autoloading pistol rounds and the gun itself can be controlled and fired confidently without being unacceptably large or heavy for most situations. The trigger system is also the most tolerant of gun-handling mistakes short of having a manual safety available and the consistent trigger pull is easier to master than those that vary from one shot to the next. There are guns that are easier to shoot because of their shorter, lighter trigger strokes, but being easier hasn’t yet convinced me to switch to something like a P320 (which would be my next choice).

For those that have experienced both, do SIG DAK and HK LEM trigger systems feel the same?

I've owned a couple SIG P229s in .357 SIG, one of which was part of a very limited release of 50 that had the DAK installed. Really liked that gun and greatly enjoy shooting that caliber, although I'm a tad more inconsistent in grouping with it, although I still achieve what I consider to be acceptable groups.

It seems as though the DAK is one of those concepts that generally generates a lot of either "love it" or "hate it" comments, and it seems there are a number of users (and non-users) who simply don't fully understand the mechanics behind how it works, or the trigger pull characteristics and dismiss it because of these.

I fall into the "love it" camp, but haven't converted fully to DAK, partially because of the cost to transition, but mostly because of the time I believe might be required to become fully proficient with it...but it is still on my list of things to do. I'm still disappointed that SIG decided to drop the DAK product line from their cataloged offerings.

Sigfreund is the resident expert on DAK and I'll let his thoughts stand.

There have been a multiple DAK discussion threads over the years and I'd suggest you read through some of the several of them.

Here are just a couple of them to get you started:

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/6780048764


https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/8420054364

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:
For those that have experienced both, do SIG DAK and HK LEM trigger systems feel the same?

feels totally different to me. DAK seems more consistent straight through and LEM is very light until wall-almost 2 stage like. I only have a 239 in DAK and it seems this is not the best platform for this trigger system.

...and light LEM is even better!

I've wanted to try the DAK system, and the .357 Sig caliber for a while. So, when a mildly used P229 DAK in .40 landed in front of me, I quickly scooped it up and ordered a .357 Sig conversion barrel. While waiting for the barrel, I did some research on my new-to-me caliber ... and I liked everything I saw. Of course, no where in my research did it say how much more expensive the ammo is! Once I recovered from the ammo sticker shock, my love affair with this caliber, and the DAK system began to bloom. I've got my eyes out locally for a P226 in .357 and a P320C as well.

Ammo prices were a little more than 45 before the shortage, about $17 a box online. In the grand scheme of things and the amount most people shoot we’re talking about $50-75 a year, not much.

I could be wrong, but I bet if you put a 9mm barrel in the 357 sig it will probably function for practice.. works on a P239... yes, I know the extractor and recoil spring in theory would have to be replaced but it seems they don't. For the pice of a barrel... I'd give it a try.

As for DAK... I went that route for a short while too with the P239... it is 'okay' and an interesting way to go. Not my favorite but there is nothing wrong with it... double action only with two different trigger pulls and resets....

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
I bet if you put a 9mm barrel in the 357 sig it will probably function for practice..

Not with a P229. 9mm and 357/40 P229 barrels are not the same diameter and the locking lugs that interface with the locking inserts are also different.

To shoot 9mm ammunition with a 357/40 P229 it’s necessary to use an aftermarket conversion barrel designed for the purpose. An original factory 9mm barrel won’t work.

Note that I’m referring to the original 9mm P229 barrel and locking insert. I know nothing about the 9mm P229-1. If its barrel would work in a 357/40 P229 slide, that’s not something I’m aware of. If anyone knows, it would be good to know.

And now that the inevitable “two different trigger pulls and resets” comment has been made, I’ll clarify that as well. When firing a DAK pistol, there are two different trigger resets available for use. The short reset requires releasing the trigger to move forward about half the distance as the full reset. Because the trigger is reset at that point it’s possible to pull it again to fire another shot. If the short reset is used, the trigger pull weight is a bit heavier than using the full reset. Using the short reset point is optional, though, and it can be ignored and bypassed without even noticing it.

As I have observed many times in these discussions I cannot get over my amazement that people become so fixated on and befuddled by something that they can ignore completely and probably wouldn’t even notice if it weren’t mentioned to them. It’s as if someone wouldn’t buy a car with cruise control:

“I don’t like cruise control. I like controlling the car myself.”
“Well, don’t use it then.”
“But I don’t like it; I’d rather control the car myself.”
“Don’t use it!”
“I don’t like it and won’t buy a car with it.”
…

Thanks for the links above, MDS. I read through them but all they spoke to was the DAK system whereas I'm looking for real-world experience/comparison between DAK & LEM.

My apologies to the OP for the large thread drift. I'll continue this question in a thread of its own later.

I have shot LEM a bunch. It’s a great trigger. That I don’t really like. If I shot it exclusively I think I might love it. I find it doesn’t lend itself well to switching between TDA and strikers though.

I also think light LEM is too light. I really like the hybrid Todd Green Special which splits the difference. My P2000 in that confit is very sweet and hard to miss with.

I have never handled a DAK. Every conversation about them never leaves me with any inclination to try one either. Lol. Maybe it would surprise me. Maybe.

Two resets isn't really what you are getting with a DAK. {altho it is possible to use, better to ignore} The one is only there to have a catch point for second strike capability.

When issued the LEM, I found that inside 25 yards, I could get more hits on target faster than with the TDA(never got around to trying beyond 25 yards). When the DAK came out, I really liked it, and now have a 229DAK as my house gun. I would have more if Sig had them available, but I got the Sig-ness early so most of mine are pre-DAK frames, and converting the others gets real expensive real fast!

Does anyone know if the DAK parts are usable across the P-series, ie will the 220 take the same DAK parts as the 229? I have the parts for another 229, but the frame is not compatible, and the 220 frame is. Just would like to know before I end up with a pile of parts on the bench! Not trying to hijack the thread- I really prefer the DAK, and spent over an hour yesterday trying to convert my other 229 to DAK before I realized the frame was not going to allow it.

quote:

Originally posted by roym:
Two resets isn't really what you are getting with a DAK. {altho it is possible to use, better to ignore} The one is only there to have a catch point for second strike capability.

I think that the DAK has been misunderstood by most. It is NOT at all like a DA/SA. It is not meant to give bump stock like capabilities to a hand gun as the short reset is on a DA/SA. It is meant to have the safety of a revolver / long pull trigger but enhanced by leverage and removing the added force needed to move the cylinder that a revolver has.

Just like a revolver, after firing it doesn't need any fiddling with a safety or a de-cocker in order to re holster. It automatically de-cocks itself to a partial cocked position.

Unlike a revolver, if a round doesn't fire, it doesn't just move on and forget the UN-fired cartridge. It has a catch point in order to be able to re engage the hammer from a further point, haven fallen past the normal de-cocked position, where the leverage advantage is designed to be.

quote:

Originally posted by roym:
The one is only there to have a catch point for second strike capability.

Umm ..., no, that’s not true and demonstrates total ignorance of one of the most obvious characteristics of the DAK trigger.
I can only ask: Do you have any personal experience with the DAK trigger that you are advising us about?

If a DAK gun fails to fire due to a bad round or, more likely, an empty chamber, the hammer will go all the way forward and the trigger will reset only at the fully forward position. It can’t be reset at the short reset point unless the slide cycles, and of course that will happen only if the pistol fires (or the slide is cycled manually).

Many shooters of DAK pistols, including me, routinely use the short trigger reset. It’s simply a matter of practice and becoming accustomed to it, just as users of traditional DA/SA pistols transition from the long double action stroke to the short single action.* And saying that shooters shouldn’t use the short DAK reset is like saying that shooters of DA/SA pistols should take their fingers entirely off the trigger and outside the trigger guard after each shot.

Added: In reading your second post, I’m even more mystified about what you’re trying to say. Perhaps you do understand the DAK operation, but I don’t understand your comments.

* In fact, that’s one of the most bizarre things about critics of the “two” trigger pulls of the DAK system. They claim that it’s impossible to learn to use the short reset of the DAK, but blithely assume that no one should have any problem with the true two distinctly different trigger actions of a DA/SA gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
I've owned a couple SIG P229s in .357 SIG, one of which was part of a very limited release of 50 that had the DAK installed. Really liked that gun and greatly enjoy shooting that caliber, although I'm a tad more inconsistent in grouping with it, although I still achieve what I consider to be acceptable groups.

It seems as though the DAK is one of those concepts that generally generates a lot of either "love it" or "hate it" comments, and it seems there are a number of users (and non-users) who simply don't fully understand the mechanics behind how it works, or the trigger pull characteristics and dismiss it because of these.

I fall into the "love it" camp, but haven't converted fully to DAK, partially because of the cost to transition, but mostly because of the time I believe might be required to become fully proficient with it...but it is still on my list of things to do. I'm still disappointed that SIG decided to drop the DAK product line from their cataloged offerings.

Sigfreund is the resident expert on DAK and I'll let his thoughts stand.

There have been a multiple DAK discussion threads over the years and I'd suggest you read through some of the several of them.

Here are just a couple of them to get you started:

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/6780048764


https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/8420054364

These were great. TY.

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:
Thanks for the links above, MDS. I read through them but all they spoke to was the DAK system whereas I'm looking for real-world experience/comparison between DAK & LEM.

My apologies to the OP for the large thread drift. I'll continue this question in a thread of its own later.

I didn't post the above links in response to your question, but to answer the OP's question.

However, your question has been discussed and answered as well.

I don't have any experience with the LEM, but read this previous discussion which does specifically answer your question.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/6290030934

quote:

Originally posted by Sig M11:

These were great. TY.

You're very welcome.

There are several more, some of which discuss even more info. I realize that the forum doesn't have the best search feature (there are ways to get around that) and with topics such as this one having been posted so many times before it seems a waste to miss out on some of the previously interesting discussions that have offered so much good info...so its never a bad idea to search the forum for previous discussions on a specific topic or question first, before starting a new discussion.