^^ Well, if we're being honest, it obviously didn't just go off all by itself!

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt 127:

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:.

That dumbass security guard was screwing with his equipment and caused an ND. He then had the exact same thought as that murderous airman, “I can blame it on the gun because everybody knows they just go off”. Reprehensible behavior all around.

What did you see to make you believe he was screwing around with his equipment?

If you watch the video from CBS Austin, you can see the guard walk back toward the guard shack doorway and turn around.
It starts at the 00:27 second mark.

https://cbsaustin.com/news/loc...y-at-usaa-guard-gate

That was a lot less stress and banging around than the vast majority of duty guns get in a day. If Touching the butt of a carry gun makes them fire…I would have fallen through the hole all those rounds fired into the floor around me made.

The Anti P320 Movement is holding up this grainy video as more evidence of the P320 being faulty.
No surprise there.
I see a guy with his hand on or very near to his service pistol when the discharge happened.
Other than that, a few questions come to mind...

What is USAA anyway ? Is that a typo ?
If that was US military, why wasn't his manual safety on safe ?
Was there any FOD in the holster ?
Correct holster ?
Has the belt, holster and firearm been turned in for a proper forensic examination ?

ETA
Count me as another who doesn't open any videos by Stoeger.

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
The Anti P320 Movement is holding up this grainy video as more evidence of the P320 being faulty.
No surprise there.

That goes both ways.
Some in the Pro P320 movement watch the video and see reprehensible behavior by the guard and are certain he was playing with his gun at his desk right before it discharged.

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
I see a guy with his hand on or very near to his service pistol when the discharge happened.

It would be nice to have a film crew on hand to capture 4K 60FPS video of these incidents. Unfortunately, this is about as good as it's going to get for now. Anyone truly trying to get to the bottom of these incidents would be asking the same questions you are.
USAA is an insurance company by the way.

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
What is USAA anyway ? Is that a typo ?

You are one of the few who haven’t seen a USAA Insurance commercial.

ETA: They also do financial stuff for military members.

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
What is USAA anyway ? Is that a typo ?

You are one of the few who haven’t seen a USAA Insurance commercial.

ETA: They also do financial stuff for military members.

No, no. LOL. I know what USAA insurance is.
Insurance company + guardhouse seemed off, but maybe not in today's world.

quote:

I see a guy with his hand on or very near to his service pistol when the discharge happened.
Other than that, a few questions come to mind...

And. That doesn’t make a gun fire, In the holster. Nor does a backpack hitting it. Or banging into another holstered gun. Or getting out of a car. Or walking while carrying a gun. Or tossing a holstered gun into the trunk of a car…

At least, it never did until whatever magical combination of gun and holster came together with the P320.

They usual excuse it “His finger must have touched the trigger…”. Well, it didn’t.

Is the new criteria his hand touched the gun or was near the gun?

I don't think anybody's saying that this proves anything. He may have been dicking with/re-holetering his gun, or just bump-checking the mag as someone else suggested. The incidental contact isn't the issue...it's whatever happened leading up to it that we can't see. The video is inconclusive, but it does make it clear that this was not a case of "his hands were nowhere near the gun."

I just sighted in a RMR on a custom P320 with the tabbed agency arms trigger. It just works.

I hope that someday Sig will create a solution so that we can once again buy and sell this pistol at reasonable values. Maybe a voluntary inspection by a factory Sig armorer? Maybe a "Sig Service Package" that involves a full detail strip and rebuild, with mysteriously appearing stronger action springs to keep that sear engaged? Maybe an optional tabbed trigger, if the owner desires? Just something physical, with a receipt showing the service, would do a lot to keep this pistol viable.

At the same time, I'm ready to move on from the P320. I think I'll return to the P7 (that's a joke of course) which is so heavy that when it falls on your garage floor that it plummets halfway to the center of the earth. Any round fired harmlessly bores a hole for earthworms.

SIG-Sauer will weather the reputation storm. What will make or break the P320 is the sales numbers.

I hope the guy does the right thing and turns the entire rig in for examination.
I won't be holding my breath though.
In the meantime, the video will be circulating the Internet collecting thousands of views and opinions.

Obviously a duty gun should never discharge when subjected to a little jostling.
I think it's most likely that something was partially pressing the trigger and his jostling finished the press.
FOD in the holster ? Ill fitting holster ?
I can't ID the holster in that grainy video although its basic shape does not look like a common brand.

In any event, maybe a tabbed trigger would have prevented this ?

Hopefully they answer the questions and don't go radio silent like we have seen before.

I was super nervous about my P320's after all of these reports of random discharges. The last straw was the most recent report of the airman that put his holstered weapon on his desk and then it went off and killed him. Yikes, I took pictures of all three of my handguns (2 M17's and a M18) and was ready to sell.

Then I saw the new report that it was all BS, a total lie to cover up grossly negligent firearm handling. And I read more about the other events, including slogging through this thread, that had a heck of a lot of gray area in this regard.

Final answer for me: I'm keeping my P320's. My one nod to uncertainty here was to reinstall the safeties for peace of mind (I removed them initially when purchased) so I can keep the safety engaged when carrying cocked and loaded. That plus my Blackpoint holster will solve 100% of any issues being thrown around here.

One problem is that people can't keep their hands off their (gun) butts. That last video, the guy had his hand on the gun. Why?

I have seen any number of people on the USPSA and IDPA ranges with their hands on the gun, even lifting it an inch and dropping it back in.

Once these Sig-cidents started happening, merely placing your hand on the butt of a holstered handgun is considered reckless and unsafe behavior.

The Times They Are A-Changin'

The guy in the CBS Austin video said there were over 400 incidents in 46 states. That seems like something worth investigating. Sig says nothing to see here. Whether it’s an internal design flaw or an external design flaw that somehow causes the trigger to be pulled while holstered, there’s enough smoke to suspect a fire.

COVIDP320…

quote:

Originally posted by ruger357:
The guy in the CBS Austin video said there were over 400 incidents in 46 states. That seems like something worth investigating.

Don't believe everything you see in internet videos

quote:

Sig says nothing to see here.

It's normal for a company to protect its product.

quote:

Whether it’s an internal design flaw or an external design flaw that somehow causes the trigger to be pulled while holstered, there’s enough smoke to suspect a fire.

This is a striker fired pistol 95% charged when in battery with no external safeties (civilian version).
It has a fairly light (5.5 - 6.0) trigger pull and a fairly short takeup.
That should be enough information to figure out what the problem is.

Then that’s a bad design and a flaw in my opinion.