The Sig P320 and discharges.

July 04, 2025, 08:00 PM

stormwalker

quote:
Originally posted by Sgt 127:
Though, coming from a pistol with a thumb safety and a grip safety, I handled a Glock like a rattlesnake. Now, even shorter travel and lighter triggers than the Glocks are considered perfectly safe to carry.

I added Striker Control Devices to my Glocks, so that I can ride the back plate while holstering, as I do the hammer on my P-series Sigs. Old habits die hard.
https://langdontactical.com/st...-control-device-scd/

July 04, 2025, 08:03 PM

parabellum

quote:
Originally posted by Sgt 127:
Holstered P320. Possibly the backpack strap snagged and tugged on it briefly. Fired, injuring the officer.

I can't watch these videos anymore. It's sad. Whatever is going on, it's sad.

July 04, 2025, 08:31 PM

Lt CHEG

I’m sorry, these guns are defective for the use that they are marketed for. If that backpack strap somehow caused that officer’s gun to fire, I don’t care if a piece glanced into the holster or something, it is simply not fit for duty use. I’m sorry that we don’t have the hi definition, high speed camera footage that some people seem to require to recognize a problem. I don’t even care that there has been tremendous difficulty duplicating these issues. The fact of the matter is that these guns are going off unexpectedly and not because of careless handling. That school resource officer did nothing unsafe or unusual. That should simply not happen.

I don’t know if a trigger dingus would fix things or not. I don’t know what would fix things. What I do know is that these 320 pistols are absolutely not fit for duty use. There is far too much evidence to dismiss. The more SIG doubles, triples, quadruples, etc. down, the more financial pain I hope they experience when this all finally gets resolved. This is simply unacceptable, and heads should really be rolling.

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”

July 04, 2025, 08:43 PM

Sgt 127

quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
quote:
Originally posted by Sgt 127:
Holstered P320. Possibly the backpack strap snagged and tugged on it briefly. Fired, injuring the officer.
I can't watch these videos anymore. It's sad. Whatever is going on, it's sad.

I wish it made Sig just as sad. I’ve always loved Sigs. Owned many. Still own five. Only one striker fired, a P365. I hate to see as time honored a company as Sig getting beat down. Possibly, deservedly.

I suspect Sig has an idea of what’s happening. I would love for someone to get a brand new P320 and a set of calipers and a keen eye and see if there have been and “product improvements” from a 5-8 year old P320….That Sig didn’t feel was worth sharing with owners. Or, upgrading the guns already out there.

If there are any substantial changes, we might figure out what the problem is.

July 04, 2025, 09:00 PM

Jupiter

If all of these issues are related to something getting into the holster, we should be seeing plenty of incidents involving Glocks as well. Would someone here be kind enough to post some links showing Glocks discharging in a holster? I don't need to see many. A small handful (5 to 10) will work. Glock have been used much longer than the P320 and are far more common. There should be a ton of them out there.

July 04, 2025, 09:17 PM

Blackwater

quote:
Originally posted by Jupiter:
If all of these issues are related to something getting into the holster, we should be seeing plenty of incidents involving Glocks as well.

This.
MP’s as well. But no, it’s just P320’s.

July 05, 2025, 11:39 AM

DirectDrive

quote:
Originally posted by Sgt 127:
Appendix shooting video.

https://youtu.be/l58e2XvU6BQ

It’s not very definitive. And, doesn’t really implicate the gun or the holster. He was futzing with it and, it went off.

I does, however, confirm to me that cocked and unlocked guns are not the optimal choice for Appendix carry and, I’m not even comfortable with cocked and locked. I will stick with one of my P239’s (DAK) or a revolver.

And here's another annoying Youtube monetizer (the presenter of the video), that is cashing in on the "catch of the day" (P320 ND's).
Some of these people are making a living now or supplementing their income with their Youtube payments.
They fan the flames for their own benefit.
They could find and post up a Glock AIWB ND without much trouble, but it's not the catch of the day.

Maybe a detailed analysis (pistol and holster examination) will follow, but I won't hold my breath.

July 05, 2025, 11:40 AM

Sgt 127

It’s anything BUT the gun.

Folks will go to extraordinary lengths to make the case.

“She was probably wearing a T Back! I’ve never worn a T back and, my P320 has NEVER spontaneously gone off!!!”

July 05, 2025, 11:51 AM

DirectDrive

quote:
Originally posted by Sgt 127:
It’s anything BUT the gun.

Folks will go to extraordinary lengths to make the case.

“She was probably wearing a T Back! I’ve never worn a T back and, my P320 has NEVER spontaneously gone off!!!”

I think we're beyond the spontaneous discharge BS, but some still bring it up, just like the the drop safe issue that was resolved 8 years ago.

This is about what is pulling these triggers, because they are getting pulled....somehow.
There's almost always motion and a holster in the equation.

And yes, I think that the P320 is less tolerant of sloppy gun handling than other designs.
And no, a trigger blade safety will not make it all better. Other striker-fires with a blade safety have had these ND's.

July 05, 2025, 11:56 AM

Jupiter

quote:
Originally posted by DirectDrive:

And here's another annoying Youtube monetizer (the presenter of the video), that is cashing in on the "catch of the day" (P320 ND's).
Some of these people are making a living now or supplementing their income with their Youtube payments.
They could find and post up a Glock AIWB ND without much trouble, but it's not the catch of the day.

I think you would see plenty of Youtube monetizers jump at the chance to post videos showing Glocks firing inside a holster if they were available. If those type of videos are so easy to find, why don't you post some for us to see.

July 05, 2025, 12:04 PM

DirectDrive

quote:
Originally posted by Jupiter:
quote:
Originally posted by DirectDrive:

And here's another annoying Youtube monetizer (the presenter of the video), that is cashing in on the "catch of the day" (P320 ND's).
Some of these people are making a living now or supplementing their income with their Youtube payments.
They could find and post up a Glock AIWB ND without much trouble, but it's not the catch of the day.

I think you would see plenty of Youtube monetizers jump at the chance to post videos showing Glocks firing inside a holster if they were available. If those type of videos are so easy to find, why don't you post some for us to see.

Here's one that is similar to this recent P320 ND only with a Glock G43...
https://youtu.be/ENT2X4TeZIM?feature=shared
This type of ND can happen with a trigger blade safety.
So a trigger blade safety (dingus) is not the fix.

The fix for me is to not appendix carry any striker-fired pistol.
YMMV

July 05, 2025, 12:10 PM

Sgt 127

quote:
Originally posted by DirectDrive:
This is about what is pulling these triggers, because they are getting pulled....somehow.
There's almost always motion and a holster in the equation.

Then, there is a major problem. Duty guns get beat up, knocked around daily. In their holsters. They are constantly in motion. Tossed in gun lockers in the jail. Banging into doorways. Car doors. Either the gun is defective. Or, all of the major holster makers are making defective holsters but, only for the Sig P320.

July 05, 2025, 12:14 PM

Jupiter

quote:
Originally posted by DirectDrive:
quote:
Originally posted by Jupiter:
quote:
Originally posted by DirectDrive:

And here's another annoying Youtube monetizer (the presenter of the video), that is cashing in on the "catch of the day" (P320 ND's).
Some of these people are making a living now or supplementing their income with their Youtube payments.
They could find and post up a Glock AIWB ND without much trouble, but it's not the catch of the day.

I think you would see plenty of Youtube monetizers jump at the chance to post videos showing Glocks firing inside a holster if they were available. If those type of videos are so easy to find, why don't you post some for us to see.

Here's one that is similar to this recent P320 ND only with a Glock G43...
https://youtu.be/ENT2X4TeZIM?feature=shared

I saw that one from 7 years ago. One of the comments said "It was featured on a news report where I live when they displayed the holster the trigger guard was a different shape than a glock so most likely it was a m&p holsters due to glocks fitting them but not securing". Can you provide more links? I would honestly like to see more like this. Like I said earlier, there should be a lot of them.

July 05, 2025, 12:18 PM

parabellum

quote:
Originally posted by DirectDrive:
And no, a trigger blade safety will not make it all better. Other striker-fires with a blade safety have had these ND's.

I notice the cutesy language, of "all better" as if mommy is kissing the boo boo you got while playing in the yard.

A safety device on the face of the trigger will make it "better" which is to say that the frequency of these UCs would decrease. As your yourself indicate, the trigger is being pulled/pressed.

Yes, Glocks and other striker-fired pistols are subject to these incidents, but there would be more such occurrences without the trigger safety.

I happen to think that if the P320 had the trigger safety, the chance of a UC would decrease to roughly equal that of other such pistols.

But, in your comments, you say you think a trigger safety is of no consequence, which is at odds with the conclusion you've drawn. Surely you do not need it demonstrated it you that in a Glock, the narrow safety blade does, without any doubt, prevent rearward movement of the trigger unless impinged upon at a narrow range of angles, and the trigger guard makes it so that disengaging the trigger safety with anything but a finger requires complex movement which is quite unlikey to occur at that very spot.

July 05, 2025, 12:28 PM

DirectDrive

quote:
Originally posted by Sgt 127:
quote:
Originally posted by DirectDrive:
This is about what is pulling these triggers, because they are getting pulled....somehow.
There's almost always motion and a holster in the equation.

Then, there is a major problem. Duty guns get beat up, knocked around daily. In their holsters. They are constantly in motion. Tossed in gun lockers in the jail. Banging into doorways. Car doors. Either the gun is defective. Or, all of the major holster makers are making defective holsters but, only for the Sig P320.

I agree, P320 is not a good choice for duty gun, IMO.
Safariland has put out safety bulletins and has made rolling changes in their holsters.

July 05, 2025, 12:33 PM

DirectDrive

quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
quote:
Originally posted by DirectDrive:
And no, a trigger blade safety will not make it all better. Other striker-fires with a blade safety have had these ND's.
I notice the cutesy language, of "all better" as if mommy is kissing the boo boo you got while playing in the yard.

A safety device on the face of the trigger will make it "better" which is to say that the frequency of these UCs would decrease. As your yourself indicate, the trigger is being pulled/pressed.

Yes, Glocks and other striker-fired pistols are subject to these incidents, but there would be more such occurrences without the trigger safety.

I happen to think that if the P320 had the trigger safety, the chance of a UC would decrease to roughly equal that of other such pistols.

But, in your comments, you say you think a trigger safety is of no consequence, which is at odds with the conclusion you've drawn. Surely you do not need it demonstrated it you that in a Glock, the narrow safety blade does, without any doubt, prevent rearward movement of the trigger unless it impinged upon at a narrow range of angles, and the trigger guard makes it so that disengaging the trigger safety with anything but a finger requires complex movement which is quite unlikey to occur at that very spot.

Blade safety is not the fix, as history shows.
True, it may help prevent an ND in protecting from trigger side contact, but they were designed as inertia safeties.

July 05, 2025, 12:36 PM

Jupiter

quote:
Originally posted by DirectDrive:

I agree, P320 is not a good choice for duty gun, IMO.
Safariland has put out safety bulletins and has made rolling changes in their holsters.

Rolling safety changes just for the P320? It seems like it's quite the balancing act to get it right with this design.