My spouse’s brother has a 10/22 he wants to give as a gift to her daughter, his niece, who is over 21.

The brother lives in Florida, the niece lives in Vermont. The brother has been told he can ship a long gun to a “blood relative” in another state directly without going through an FFL.

However, in my reading, it doesn’t matter if it is a long gun as opposed to a handgun or a close relation as opposed to no relation. You still have to go through an FFL.

I say shipping directly is illegal. In my reading, federal law does not make a distinction or allow an exemption for transfers from one close relation to another in another state.

Within the state, some states makes exemption for such transfers and allow them to be done as a private transfer, no FFL necessary. Even with it’s new gun control, VT allows for transfers between close relations without going through an FFL. Other private transfers are now required to use an FFL.

None of this, however, supersedes federal law from what I can tell.

So, which is it? Legal or not?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SIGWolf,

Illegal. Period.

SIGWolf, that would not be a LEGAL transfer of ownership

If Ownership of the firearm changes AND the firearm crosses a State line in the process, the firearm MUST go to an FFL holder and the new owner has to fill out a standard form 4473 plus meet all the same requirements that a retail purchaser must meet in the destination State

Short answer: It must be transferred through an FFL

Long answer is here: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/q...r-firearms-under-gca

quote:

Originally posted by colt_saa:
SIGWolf, that would not be a LEGAL transfer of ownership

If Ownership of the firearm changes AND the firearm crosses a State line in the process, the firearm MUST go to an FFL holder and the new owner has to fill out a standard form 4473 plus meet all the same requirements that a retail purchaser must meet in the destination State

The firearm crossing a state line is not even necessary for it to be a felony. If an individual transfers possession of a firearm to a resident of a different state, it is a federal felony. That is regardless of where the transfer takes place. If they are not residents of the same state, it is a felony to transfer possession, even if done in person while they are together.

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:

quote:

Originally posted by colt_saa:
SIGWolf, that would not be a LEGAL transfer of ownership

If Ownership of the firearm changes AND the firearm crosses a State line in the process, the firearm MUST go to an FFL holder and the new owner has to fill out a standard form 4473 plus meet all the same requirements that a retail purchaser must meet in the destination State

The firearm crossing a state line is not even necessary for it to be a felony. If an individual transfers possession of a firearm to a resident of a different state, it is a federal felony. That is regardless of where the transfer takes place. If they are not residents of the same state, it is a felony to transfer possession, even if done in person while they are together.

You are incorrect.

The transfer of ownership between two individuals that reside in different States is only unlawful under Federal Law if they fail to use an FFL holder in the new State of ownership to handle the transfer to the new owner.

There is nothing in Federal Law to stop them from both being together at the FFL holder's place of business while the transaction is taking place

Obviously State and Local Laws may vary

quote:

Originally posted by colt_saa:

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:

quote:

Originally posted by colt_saa:
SIGWolf, that would not be a LEGAL transfer of ownership

If Ownership of the firearm changes AND the firearm crosses a State line in the process, the firearm MUST go to an FFL holder and the new owner has to fill out a standard form 4473 plus meet all the same requirements that a retail purchaser must meet in the destination State

The firearm crossing a state line is not even necessary for it to be a felony. If an individual transfers possession of a firearm to a resident of a different state, it is a federal felony. That is regardless of where the transfer takes place. If they are not residents of the same state, it is a felony to transfer possession, even if done in person while they are together.

You are incorrect.

The transfer of ownership between two individuals that reside in different States is only unlawful under Federal Law if they fail to use an FFL holder in the new State of ownership to handle the transfer to the new owner.

There is nothing in Federal Law to stop them from both being together at the FFL holder's place of business while the transaction is taking place

Obviously State and Local Laws may vary

I suppose this is what this provision is about.

“A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he or she or she does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. Another exception is provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition by intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who inherits a firearm under the will of a decedent.”

However, this case I’m dealing with is not one of bequest or acquisition by intestate succession.

Thanks for your replies.

That is what I thought.

I guess the other provision I mentioned above would be in the case of a bequest in which the receiver was, at the time, in the same state but was not a resident of that state. But then the laws of the state would apply.

But, as I said, this is not a matter of bequest or acquisition by intestate.

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:

quote:

Originally posted by colt_saa:
SIGWolf, that would not be a LEGAL transfer of ownership

If Ownership of the firearm changes AND the firearm crosses a State line in the process, the firearm MUST go to an FFL holder and the new owner has to fill out a standard form 4473 plus meet all the same requirements that a retail purchaser must meet in the destination State

The firearm crossing a state line is not even necessary for it to be a felony. If an individual transfers possession of a firearm to a resident of a different state, it is a federal felony. That is regardless of where the transfer takes place. If they are not residents of the same state, it is a felony to transfer possession, even if done in person while they are together.

I think I see what you’re addressing.

Transferring a firearm to someone who is a non-resident of the state in which the transfer is being done. In that case there is the “bequest or acquisition by interstate” exception. However, that is not the case with which I’m dealing. This is not a inheritance. So, I think you are right. He could not transfer it to her were she in FL.

Also, if the brother were to drive the rifle up to Vermont, transferring it to the daughter by giving it to her while in Vermont would also be illegal. Perhaps even if an FFL were involved as the state of Vermont requires? It would certainly be illegal if she were in FL and he gave it to her based on the “transferring to a nonresident” prohibition.

My contribution to the discussion has been that he needs to ship it to an FFL here, period.

quote:

Originally posted by colt_saa:

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:

quote:

Originally posted by colt_saa:
SIGWolf, that would not be a LEGAL transfer of ownership

If Ownership of the firearm changes AND the firearm crosses a State line in the process, the firearm MUST go to an FFL holder and the new owner has to fill out a standard form 4473 plus meet all the same requirements that a retail purchaser must meet in the destination State

The firearm crossing a state line is not even necessary for it to be a felony. If an individual transfers possession of a firearm to a resident of a different state, it is a federal felony. That is regardless of where the transfer takes place. If they are not residents of the same state, it is a felony to transfer possession, even if done in person while they are together.

You are incorrect.

The transfer of ownership between two individuals that reside in different States is only unlawful under Federal Law if they fail to use an FFL holder in the new State of ownership to handle the transfer to the new owner.

There is nothing in Federal Law to stop them from both being together at the FFL holder's place of business while the transaction is taking place

Obviously State and Local Laws may vary

Of course you can transfer possession of a firearm to an FFL in another state, who can then transfer possession to an individual who is present in that state and who is a resident of that state (handgun) or any state (long gun).

An individual (non-FFL holder) may not transfer any firearm to an individual (non-FFL holder) who is a resident of a different state.

The question was not “is there any way to get this gun to her”. The question was whether or not he could legally ship it to her. My answer, and others, were correct. HE can not legally transfer a firearm to HER. The point of my post was that it is not just the shipping that makes it illegal. It is illegal because they are residents of different states- even if the transfer took place in person while they were together. A lot of people don’t realize this distinction, and that’s why I pointed it out.

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:

quote:

Originally posted by colt_saa:

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:

quote:

Originally posted by colt_saa:
SIGWolf, that would not be a LEGAL transfer of ownership

If Ownership of the firearm changes AND the firearm crosses a State line in the process, the firearm MUST go to an FFL holder and the new owner has to fill out a standard form 4473 plus meet all the same requirements that a retail purchaser must meet in the destination State

The firearm crossing a state line is not even necessary for it to be a felony. If an individual transfers possession of a firearm to a resident of a different state, it is a federal felony. That is regardless of where the transfer takes place. If they are not residents of the same state, it is a felony to transfer possession, even if done in person while they are together.

You are incorrect.

The transfer of ownership between two individuals that reside in different States is only unlawful under Federal Law if they fail to use an FFL holder in the new State of ownership to handle the transfer to the new owner.

There is nothing in Federal Law to stop them from both being together at the FFL holder's place of business while the transaction is taking place

Obviously State and Local Laws may vary

Of course you can transfer possession of a firearm to an FFL in another state, who can then transfer possession to an individual who is present in that state and who is a resident of that state (handgun) or any state (long gun).

An individual (non-FFL holder) may not transfer any firearm to an individual (non-FFL holder) who is a resident of a different state.

The question was not “is there any way to get this gun to her”. The question was whether or not he could legally ship it to her. My answer, and others, were correct. HE can not legally transfer a firearm to HER. The point of my post was that it is not just the shipping that makes it illegal. It is illegal because they are residents of different states- even if the transfer took place in person while they were together. A lot of people don’t realize this distinction, and that’s why I pointed it out.

I get it! Thanks for pointing that out!