Went back out today and shot it some more to try and get some groups and figure out a consistent point of impact.

The trigger is better after I cleaned up the ratchet...not anywhere near as good as my 640, but at least not dragging every fourth round and binding every 5th. It's definitely not "click, click, wow!" like I was led to expect, but at least I was able to produce some groups.

Reliability was perfect. Timing and lockup were good, and every shot went bang.

I was shooting my reloads, which are a 148gr full wadcutter over 4.0gr of HP38 and should be running right around 950fps. It's the top end of the standard pressure .38 data (Not +P).

I'm having a heck of a time figuring out these sights. I typically align the top of the front post with the top of the rears right on the center of my target. I just use the dot for a focal point and to help acquire the sight...it's not aligned for aiming.

The rounded front post with these makes that approach difficult, and when I do it, I hit pretty darn high. I tried driving the dot all the way down into the bottom of the notch and holding over the desired point of aim...it still hit high. So I tried a 6:00 hold and it hit low.



Here's targets at 7, 15, and 25 yards, trying to align the posts:







Then I tried the "bury the dot in the bottom of the U-Notch and cover the point of aim with the dot" approach:




I know it's not a target gun, but I'd like to at least be able to know what the hold ought to be. Maybe my loads are a bit too hot for the sights' regulation.

I also tried a variation on RichardC's postal match from hell (variation because it only holds 5 instead of the 6 rounds required for the 3 strings of fire on the course, and there's no way I'm pulling off a reload under time!). It wasn't super pretty, but not too suprising for a snubby revolver compared to how I've been doing with much bigger and easier to shoot guns.

Strings are shot from concealment, 6 rounds 2 hand, 6 round RHO, 6 rounds LHO, all at 7 yards with an 8 second par time. None of us has cleaned it under par yet with a centerfire handgun.



Honestly, if this had been a run-of-the mill 642 that I bought for $400-$500 I'd be satisfied with it. It's a lightweight snubby revolver. It works, and hits to point of aim-ish. But it's not. It was hyped up and heavily endorsed, and I paid $800 for a gun with a mediocre trigger, flawed rollmarks, and sights with a goofy sight picture that don't appear to be properly regulated to .38 ammo as advertised.

I kinda want to take it back out one more time and compare it to my 640, just to make sure I'm being realistic in my assessment.

The more I think about it I kinda want to call Smith and at least bring the issues to their attention. I'm not sure what they'll do, because it's not actually broken, but it definitely falls short of expectations.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 92fstech,

A couple years back, I bought a new 640 Pro. Although it shot above the point of aim with various ammo, I thought I could live with it. However, and I'm not sure how I didn't notice this in the gun store, it also had a significant "catch" or hangup toward the end of the trigger pull on two of the five chambers. The ratchet looked very rough with burrs or peened edges. I wasn't going to attempt to file on it, so I sent it back to S&W, and they did fix it.

Non-professional reviews of firearms are enlightening.

My Lipsey's .32 shot two rounds of Federal HST at ten yards, and five at twenty yards, into just over two inches to the proper POS/POI. Wish I knew how to embed a picture, but I don't. I wish the front sight had a square top edge as that would make figuring out elevation easier. I suspect the after market will address that, as it is a pinned on sight.

I would be unhappy with the lettering on the barrel shroud and the trigger pull. I can put you in touch with the right person at Lipsey's if you want your revolver's problems addressed. Given the demand for these, you can sell yours at a profit, if none of this satisfies you. I really like the two .32's I bought, and they are a third the price of what used .32 J frames sell for, without this feature set.

quote:

Originally posted by GJM AK:
My Lipsey's .32 shot two rounds of Federal HST at ten yards, and five at twenty yards, into just over two inches to the proper POS/POI. Wish I knew how to embed a picture, but I don't. I wish the front sight had a square top edge as that would make figuring out elevation easier. I suspect the after market will address that, as it is a pinned on sight.

I would be unhappy with the lettering on the barrel shroud and the trigger pull. I can put you in touch with the right person at Lipsey's if you want your revolver's problems addressed. Given the demand for these, you can sell yours at a profit, if none of this satisfies you. I really like the two .32's I bought, and they are a third the price of what used .32 J frames sell for, without this feature set.

I agree about the front sight. I do love that big green dot. If somebody came out with a squared-off version it would be about perfect, and like you said easy to change since it's pinned in.

As to the accuracy, my groups above were shot offhand, and I was shooting ammo that was a little hotter than the ~750FPS that Bolke and Eastridge have suggested in the past. I loaded up a batch last night that should be pretty close to 750fps out of the short barrel, and was planning to shoot it side-by-side with my 640 pro just to reconfirm zero and make sure I'm not doing something goofy. It's going to be a few days, though, because I have to work the next two.

I would be open to talking to somebody at Lipsey's if you could put me in touch with them. My email address is in my profile. Send them a link to this thread if you'd like. Like I said, the gun is working at this point, just not quite to my satisfaction. What I'm trying to avoid is:

a.) sending the gun back just to be told that it's in spec and jumping through all of those hoops for nothing.

b.) voiding the warranty by opening it up and addressing the problem myself. I am quite confident that I could make it better by doing that, and that ship may have already sailed because I stoned the ratchet, but the trigger was completely unshootable until I did that.

If I could have a conversation with somebody who's not just a CS rep working off of a script, I feel I'd have a better chance at getting a resolution.

I'm no stranger to J-Frames, both shooting them and working on them. I love the platform, and I'm still really excited about the concepts that went into this gun. I want them to be a success...but that's not going to be the case if they can't get their QC squared away.

Thank you for this review. I think you just saved me some money. I was seriously considering one of these, but I think I might be better off with a Kimber K6xs for a lightweight pocket revolver. The fact that it made it to your LGS with that double stamp speaks volumes.

Yea, the Lipsey guy should see this thread. I was going down to Florida Gun Exchange to see if they had any but this thread has changed my mind.

A better trigger should be quantifiably better. His actually was worse and that double stamp is just shitty QA. How it left the factory that way is crazy. Of course my 640 Pro barrel is so obviously canted that the front sight won't square up in the rear notch so it isn't unheard of from the smith boys.

I’m not sure what I’m going to do at this point as the 32 was high on my list of wants. I may wait a little while to see if the bugs get hammered out, or I may just chalk this up to saving some money. I appreciate you posting this review and detailing your personal experience with your gun. I am surprised that you gun made it through quality control with it’s double stamp as that would probably drive me nuts.

GJM AK is putting me in touch with somebody at Lipsey's. Honestly guys, I wouldn't write these off, just be sure it passes inspection before you pay up and bring it home. There's a lot of potential in this design.

I'm still excited about this project, just kinda bummed that mine wasn't great out of the box. I'm not looking to tar and feather anyone with this post, just pass on an honest review of my experience. I've had great experiences with Smith and Wesson in the past, and that was a big part of why my expectations were so high for this gun. We'll see what comes from the conversation with Lipsey's.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Well, to add insult to injury, my rebate submission just got declined. Apparently my SKU doesn't qualify for the $50 J-Frame rebate that they're currently advertising everywhere...even though it's a J-Frame.

I'm getting ready to call S&W, just so I can tell them to go piss up a rope.

Well, you could get your $50 out of them and make them take it back, fix the barrel double stamp and trigger when you call..

Might as well make them make everything correct

Excellent writeup and pics. Thanks a lot! That doublestamp/3D right side lettering messes with my head. Trippy.

Shame about the trigger. Good that you know how to address the issue. Sucks that you had to.

Just had an awesome phone conversation with Jason at Lipsey's who is going above and beyond to take care of this. He clearly had read this thread, and we talked through the whole situation. I made it clear that the gun is functional, and everything I've done to it up to this point, but he said they really want them to all be right, and to send it back. He's working on getting a replacement gun sent out to my dealer and they're going to take the other one back. We even discussed the sight regulation issue I was having, and he said that when they shot loads at similar velocities to my current load they also were hitting high. I'll give the ~750fps loads a try when I pick up the new gun, and report back.

Thanks to GJM AK for putting us in contact! Also, FWIW, GJM AK sent me a photo of the group he got with his .32 at 20 yards, and it was pretty darn impressive. He's getting my expectations elevated all over again, lol.

That is good to hear. If he is reading these then hurry up with the K frames. Also square off that XS front dot. I have the same issue with my 340 and 43c. Great sights but you have to bury the round dot into the round trough for the best accuracy and that isn’t exactly natural.

quote:

t is good to hear. If he is reading these then hurry up with the K frames. Also square off that XS front dot. I have the same issue with my 340 and 43c.

We actually talked about that exact thing, and he's planning to bring up the suggestion to XS. It sounded like the idea was already on his radar.

I also just got a text from my local dealer asking what was wrong with the gun, and telling me they have another one on the way. These guys don't mess around!

I have a Scandium 38 with excellent sights installed by Dave Lauck of D&L. The front sight is a SDM with a gold bead and flat top. Here is a link:

http://www.sdmfabricating.com/Gold%20Bead.htm

*cough, ahem*

( )

Never been a big laser guy, although I've found the CTs to be surprisingly nice grips even if you're not using the laser. They need to come up a little higher on that backstrap, though.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 92fstech,

Yet another reason I am wary of buying a new gun these days, just too many duds seen, heard of, read of.

I think it is real nice you had a connection to put you in touch with somebody who is willing to throw a gun away. But it sure seems like a case of "If you don't have time to do it right, how will you find time to do it over?"

My Lipsey's 432 weighs 16.60 unloaded, with the grips that came on it. With Crimson Trace 105 laser grips, it is down to 14.70 ounces.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Watson:
Yet another reason I am wary of buying a new gun these days, just too many duds seen, heard of, read of.

I think it is real nice you had a connection to put you in touch with somebody who is willing to throw a gun away. But it sure seems like a case of "If you don't have time to do it right, how will you find time to do it over?"

Any manufacturer can turn out a problem child. If I am buying a handgun from a shop, I carefully inspect it for cosmetic issues, feel the trigger, and give it a thorough coonfingering before I commit to purchasing it. If they have multiples of what I want, I inspect each of them, and pick the one that feels best to me.