Marines may revamp pistol training to require more lethal shots

Marines can also now rest their rifles on the magazine while qualifying.

BY JEFF SCHOGOL | PUBLISHED MAR 12, 2024 4:41 PM EDT

The Marine Corps may soon change how it grades the shooting in its Combat Pistol Program, giving more points to lethal shots and devaluing non-lethal shots, Corps officials said.

“We’re not asking everyone to be able to shoot a pistol at MARSOC [U.S. Marine Corps Special Operations Command]-level quality, because if we did, then potentially no one would pass, and it then would create an undue burden on commanders,” said Col. Gregory L. Jones, commanding officer of the Weapons Training Battalion. “But we also know that the current qualification isn’t really good enough in light of all of our other insights and learning and changes.”

That goal is to make the Marine Corps’ pistol training more like the Annual Rifle Qualification, in which Marines generally only get points for hitting targets with shots that equate to hits on the heart, lungs, and head, Jones told Task & Purpose.

The last time the Marine Corps updated pistol training was in 2014, when it changed the targets that Marines shoot at from bullseyes to human silhouettes, Jones said...

Complete article:

https://taskandpurpose.com/new...rps-pistol-training/

I'm happy to hear someone in the military is actually worried about the troops hitting their targets. In theory, it sounds good to me that they are looking at assessing not just individuals, but units as well, as a reflection of quality of training. And of course I'm hearing that the "gold standard" is now competitive shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:


Marines can also now rest their rifles on the magazine while qualifying.

The end of days are near………..

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Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:
Marines can also now rest their rifles on the magazine while qualifying.

The end of days are near………..

What's next? Red dots???

Say it's not true!!!

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Originally posted by Fenris:


Say it's not true!!!

Next they’ll be allowing boots that are actually comfortable

And don't have to be shined.

How often, other than maybe MP's, are engaging enemy combatants with a pistol????

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Originally posted by calugo:
How often, other than maybe MP's, are engaging enemy combatants with a pistol????

Not often, but occasionally.

BZ to the Corps for this move. I remember that photo well. When you have to use your (M9 in this instance), it's got to count. Not to hijack the thread, but found this moving.

https://www.marinecorpstimes.c...veiled-at-pendleton/

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Originally posted by calugo:
How often, other than maybe MP's, are engaging enemy combatants with a pistol????

More than you might think given the nature of recent conflicts, and even if they don't it's still an important skill to possess given that not everyone has a rifle or has a rifle with them when they need to put a hole somewhere that didn't have a hole. Sounds like all they want to do is make it so hits to vital zones count more than periphery hits. That's what almost all police departments do now. Our course ONLY counts hits to the head and center torso. Anything outside that bowling pin is a miss.

We aren't talking training them up to MARSOC or Delta level, just basic handgun skill. If some of the folks we hire can do it...

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Originally posted by RogueJSK:
And don't have to be shined.

This is the slippery slope to letting them out their hands in their pockets.

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Originally posted by copaup:
it's still an important skill to possess

Yes. If someone is issued a pistol, they need to have the skill to use it effectively.

Marines Want More Expert Riflemen as Part of Marksmanship Revamp

GIDGET FUENTES

MARCH 13, 2024 5:17 PM - UPDATED: MARCH 13, 2024 6:22 PM

In a future island fight against a tech-equipped enemy, battlefield wins may hinge on a key skill: Rounds on target. For Marines, that means one shot, one kill.

But Marines’ shooting accuracy haven’t quite measured up to that mantra, as service officials have noted from marksmanship studies dating back to 2018.

The Marine Corps wants that to change. Amid ongoing evaluations, experimentation and, in 2022, adjustments to a combat-oriented shooting style, the service again is revising its rifle marksmanship training and qualifying regulations – effective immediately – with more realistic shooting drills, movements and positions. It also is shifting to “a lethality-based target” that only credits the shot if it hits the heart, lung, or brain, said Col. Greg Jones, commander of the Weapons Training Battalion at Quantico Marine Corps Base, Va., noting that “our job in the Marine Corps is to kill the enemies of this great nation.”

“After 20 years of war, we needed to take a harder look at marksmanship lethality,” Jones said...

Complete article with photos:

https://news.usni.org/2024/03/...-marksmanship-revamp

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our job in the Marine Corps is to kill the enemies of this great nation.

My God, that is so good to hear! Sounds like he’s channeling Rush Limbaugh—and Chesty Puller.

Here I was under the impression that was always the policy and or objective.

And of all the places where I would expect someone to ask why people who are issued guns should be able to hit their chosen targets with those guns, a gun-related forum would be pretty much at the bottom of the list.

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Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:
Marines can also now rest their rifles on the magazine while qualifying.

The end of days are near………..

I'm not sure that using a 30rd magazine as a rest would really provide much benefit. Better to use a hasty sling and jam an elbow into the ground.

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Originally posted by Expert308:
I'm not sure that using a 30rd magazine as a rest would really provide much benefit. Better to use a hasty sling and jam an elbow into the ground.

That went out with phones with a rotary dial. Using the proper technique, resting the mag on the ground is steady and fast.

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Originally posted by DaBigBR:
This is the slippery slope to letting them put their hands in their pockets.

Dear god, man... What would be next? Beards?!