My FFL performed the final rites today and submitted my broken frame to the chop saw. It is officially demilled and I have a signed receipt of its destruction, as well as the pieces. The chop saw kerfs are wide, so there is no fitting the pieces back together.

Cut Frame by GaryBF, on Flickr

(doffs hat)

quote:

Originally posted by GaryBF:
My FFL performed the final rites today and submitted my broken frame to the chop saw. It is officially demilled and I have a signed receipt of its destruction, as well as the pieces. The chop saw kerfs are wide, so there is no fitting the pieces back together.

Interesting. What now? Assuming you sold the serviceable parts to recoup some of your investment, can you simply discard the demilled receiver? Is there a legal requirement to maintain the receiver with the certificate of destruction? I've never considered how one would properly dispose of a firearm, though I have wondered what happens (legally) when a firearm is lost in a tornado or other natural disaster. In PA we don't have registration per se, however there is a Record of Sale filed with the PA State Police with each legal handgun transfer which must be completed at an FFL. Similar to a theft, I'm assuming a report is filed with the local police when a firearm is lost. Sorry for the thread drift - just curious. Thanks!

Sad to see it go.

quote:

Originally posted by hjs157:

Interesting. What now? Assuming you sold the serviceable parts to recoup some of your investment, can you simply discard the demilled receiver? Is there a legal requirement to maintain the receiver with the certificate of destruction? I've never considered how one would properly dispose of a firearm, though I have wondered what happens (legally) when a firearm is lost in a tornado or other natural disaster. In PA we don't have registration per se, however there is a Record of Sale filed with the PA State Police with each legal handgun transfer which must be completed at an FFL. Similar to a theft, I'm assuming a report is filed with the local police when a firearm is lost. Sorry for the thread drift - just curious. Thanks!

Those are good questions and ones which I pondered as well. My understanding is that there is no requirement to keep the parts. I first assumed that the FFL would dispose of them, however, he gave them back to me. I sent an email to the ATF and their reply was (basically) that the receiver had to be rendered useless. I feel comfortable that I have a receipt signed by the FFL stating the serial number and that he demilled it....and I have the photos, as well.

I also sent an email to the local county police but have received no response.

GaryBF, I'm very curious about your logic in pursuing this specific course of action on this gun. AFAIK there is no federal law that requires you to notify anyone, no requirement that an FFL destroy it, nor any notice requirement to anyone. Am I missing some risk that made you decide on a different course of action other than just cutting it up yourself (in a way the ATF written guidance describes) and then literally recycling the now scrap metal.
At the point you hacked it up it is simply not a gun. I've wondered a bit if the statues about defacing serial numbers (not a gun issue per se) would mean you couldn't destroy the serial number before you recycle it, but I'm guessing it simply wouldn't matter as I can't think of any specific reason you couldn't leave it intact. And in this case it may not even have one.
Of course a State with full registration might require some different actions, but if your location is correct my quick search of Missouri gun law indicates that the State requires no specific method or notice.

This is prolly much ado about nothing - but I also noticed that the cuts went thru the serial number. I thought I saw somewhere - years ago - that the cuts had to make the frame unserviceable, and not recoverable, but still preserve the serial number. The logic, that I remember, was that you could prove it was de-milled by showing a stub with the intact serial number on it. Not at all nitpicking, and sorry about your loss, but just a point of interest.

I would never bother to mention it to LE or the ATF.

If I felt a weapon needed to be destroyed, I'd destroy it, take photos, and be done with it. No need for paperwork, or receipts, or other admin churn.

It's destroyed, so it's not like it's going to be used in a crime anymore.

I'm with the above, heck I wouldn't even bother with trying to maintain pictures. The minute its not a gun, its scrap metal. There is no requirement to have a stub.
The serial number deface issue is in consumer protection law and is not a specific gun issue and at least in my State (and I assume everywhere else) has an exception for total destruction. Otherwise you couldn't shred a car or throw away your printer etc.
Cut it up, try and make sure the parts find the best possible home if they are helpful to someone else, recycle the frame and move on.

No doubt I was being anal, but I wanted some proof that the gun was destroyed. The email reply I received from the ATF makes no mention of preserving the serial number. Regardless, if it was not demilled correctly, I didn't do it. While I agree that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that the Feds would ever come looking for a 32 ACP pistol from 1918, that could happen in theory and I want my ass covered. YMMV.

I won't argue about what makes you feel confident. And that's what you should do for your situation. BUT there is ZERO legal basis for anyone coming looking for a destroyed frame. FWIW. If you find yourself in this situation again I wouldn't bother at all with any of this.
FWIW.

Too bad you acted so quickly.
I know of a place that could probably welded and repaired the frame.

Bob

GaryBF

So why didn't you check with Colt and see if it was still under warranty?
After all it was ONLY 100 years old!
Maybe Colt would get a big boost in sales if they actually would honor the "Warranty"!

Why destroy it. Couldn’t you reassemble it and just hang on to it just to have something cool? Seems odd to me.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I won't argue about what makes you feel confident. And that's what you should do for your situation. BUT there is ZERO legal basis for anyone coming looking for a destroyed frame. FWIW. If you find yourself in this situation again I wouldn't bother at all with any of this.
FWIW.

Hrcjon is correct. The ATF itself doesn't need to know. But since you asked them, they'll make shit up.

When would it be necessary? If you had an NFA weapon that was no longer servicable. In that case, part of the law allows the ATF to come inspect the weapons themselves..

But no such requirement exists for even a modern non-nfa gun. Even states with strict gun laws just have language that says "lost or stolen." You don't need to prove to anyone a non-nfa gun is destroyed.

I have two of these and if I found myself in the same circumstance, I'd render it inop and safe and shadowbox it for wall art. Guess if its a $$ thing, selling off the parts make sense too.

Certainly for any gun no longer in production, parting it out is a help to others.

I don't know if it's the right kind of steel or even a viable option, but what if you sent the remains to a blacksmith and had it forged into a nice knife so it could continue it's life as a weapon?

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I won't argue about what makes you feel confident. And that's what you should do for your situation. BUT there is ZERO legal basis for anyone coming looking for a destroyed frame. FWIW. If you find yourself in this situation again I wouldn't bother at all with any of this.
FWIW.

Hrcjon is correct. The ATF itself doesn't need to know. But since you asked them, they'll make shit up.

When would it be necessary? If you had an NFA weapon that was no longer servicable. In that case, part of the law allows the ATF to come inspect the weapons themselves..

But no such requirement exists for even a modern non-nfa gun. Even states with strict gun laws just have language that says "lost or stolen." You don't need to prove to anyone a non-nfa gun is destroyed.

this

NFA stuff has a specific set of rules for destruction/demill,
that is honestly not followed to the letter even by the ATF
( I cut up some post sample receivers when I closed my fathers shop and gave them to the ATF with the appropriate paperwork, just dropped a sawzall thru them, no cut in 3 pieces etc etc)

on a non NFA, there are not real requirements,

lost or stolen needs to have the appropriate paperwork, (there is a specific ATF form for that, )
simple destruction has no requirement,
I've done it a few times for stuff I have picked up in estates, just list them as acquired, the dispose as destroyed,

no need to keep anything if you do not want to