Where do the early Kimber 1911's rate in the 1911 Hierarchy for quality, value etc.

My Ultra CDP II (circa 2000) has been absolutely flawless after many thousands of rounds. It runs like butter.

I'm not really a Kimber guy even though I am a 1911 guy. From what I've been told over the years by various other 1911 guys, all of whom are far more knowledgeable on the subject than I am, this is maybe the best way to look at it:

The early Kimber 1911s were among the first 1911s produced with "modern manufacturing" (i.e. modern materials/methods where exacting tolerances are achieved almost entirely via machine), similar to what would have been associated with European semi-autos like the Beretta 90-series or the SIG Sauer P220-series. This gave Kimber an advantage over the established 1911 manufacturers, one example being Colt, whose 1911s were still being produced with "old-school manufacturing" (i.e. tried-and-true materials/methods where exacting tolerances are achieved largely via skilled labor) -on aging tooling by the way- and were becoming somewhat notorious for delivering 1911s of inconsistent quality, likely a result of their attempt to continue competing in similar price ranges.

Cohen's treatment of Kimber was later mirrored by Cohen's treatment of SIG Sauer, where the "modern manufacturing" started to be taken advantage of in a different way; quality control taking a backseat to marketing wizardry, with the goal of maximizing profits.

To the best of my knowledge, "pre-Cohen" Kimber 1911s (once Kimber fixed the quality control issues of the earliest examples) were about the best you could hope for out of a mass-manufactured 1911 at the time.

I had a kimber I got in Hendersonville NC back in 2003. Great gun, around that time people were complaining about quality-mine worked every time (I put at least 3000 rnds thru it) but I couldn’t carry it off duty due to policy and sold it( [Hagrid] I should not have done that. [/ Hagrid]

I’d buy another one w/o concern bc now everything is done by cnc mill and quality is very good.

The very earliest kimbers without the Schwartz safety were the first mass produced 1911’s to feature extended beaver tails, ambi safeties and other “ modern” features out of the factory at a price competitive to stock guns. From what limited knowledge I have, most people consider Oregon produced guns the pinnacle of kimber quality with it only going down from there. Kimbers “ flavor of the month” product line with a lot of superficial flashy finish options ( without the same attention given to mechanical excellence) is where they went wrong.

Everything I have read/ seen suggests shoddy quality and control and inconsistency- one guy gets one that runs flawlessly the next 2 customers can’t get through a mag without choking, with limited support from the manufacturer

I had a series 1 stainless gold match- it was an excellent gun.

I’m surprised bac1023 hasn’t chimed in yet. He’s a big 1911 guy who likes Kimber and knows quite a bit about them IIRC.

It really depends on what you are comparing it to and which pre-Series II guns you are talking about.

The super early Kimber "Clackamas" marked guns with the big letters on the slide are excellent. They were built using primarily slide and frames made by Jerico Precision and small parts manufactured by Chip McCormick's company CMC, who was one of the primary designers of the pistols. There was quite a bit of handfitting in these guns and they really were comparable to the Wilson 1996A1 series guns at half the price (those guns were also made with Jerico slides and frames). For $600 back in 1997 they were an absolute steal. A co-worker caried one for about twenty years on duty and had very little issue with it.

A couple years into production the guns were remarked to Yonkers, NY, and the lettering on the frame was made smaller. Kimber bought Jerico Precision and the small parts were no longer made by CMC. These guns are not quite as nice as the very early production guns, but still pretty nice. I have a 2000 production gun that's this format that I purchased in 2007. I had it re-worked twice, first by one gunsmith, and then by Dave Berryhill, based upon some issues I had with it. With a little bit of work it turned out quite nice.

By the time they switched to the Series II with the Swartz safety their quality in small parts had declined quite a bit. The slide, barrels, and frames are still quite good, but small parts are very problematic. Around 2008 we had about thirty guys buy either TLE/RL II's or Warriors from the local cop shop. Thirty guns is a fairly decent sample size. All of these guns had small niggling issues, such as the plunger tubes breaking loose, broken slide stops, cracked barrel bushings, and broken thumb safeties. Not things can't fairly easily be replaced, but problematic none the less. The Swartz safety, because it is timing reliant, can be problematic, much more so that Series 80 style safety. I would avoid a Series II gun.

The one to have, if you can find one, are the super early production guns, with the larger roll mark on the slide and skeletonized trigger. They deservedly usually cost a premium, but they're by far the best of the bunch.

Back in 2001 or so, several of my friends bought Kimber Custom Classics or the Stainless version thereof. I know the guy that bought the Stainless version sold it shortly after as he had school bills to pay.

The two Custom Classics are still with their owners and have fired thousands of rounds of 185 and 230 grain factory and reloaded ammo without too many hiccups. I believe one survived a double charged reload as well and is still running fine.