My first foray into the world of .40 was with a HK USP Compact. And boy did I hate that thing/ So much that I quickly sold it off at a big loss. I never even stoppod long enough to figure out if I hated the caliber or the gun, or ... both.

Recently, I've become intrigued with both the .357 Sig caliber and the DAK platform and decided I;d spend some money toward that goal. Along my way comes a used P229DAK in .40 and before I can shoot it, I ordered a .357 Sig barrel. The .40 came with 2 loaded mags of Gold Dots and when I fired them out, I discovered I don't dislike a .40 P229 as I did that .40 USP Compact. But I have that .357 Sig barrel and enough ammo for a while, so I don't know when the .40 barrel is going back in.

By the way, I'm really liking that DAK platform and .357 Sig. Iffin it's good enough to protect the P.O.T.U.S. it's good enough to protect my family.

I like them both. I have one of each in the original model P229. I hear people say how the .357 is supposedly more accurate (or the .40 is somehow inherently less accurate) but I don't find any difference at 25 yds.
My other carry in .40 (P239) is also very accurate, so I mostly ignore any explanations about accuracy.

I have read every reply to my thread.

Thanks, everyone, for all the informative responses. I’m learning a lot and feel fortunate to have gotten an example in both calibers. I typically shoot big bore calibers: .41 Rem. Mag. up to .460 S&W. My primary non forty-something caliber that I enjoy is .357 Magnum (Security Sixes, GP100, and a 6” bbl. Python).

I carry my USP Compact (.45 acp) daily... the 1995 P229 (in.40) is compact, but weighty (heavier than my P226, apparently). That weight should help control recoil.

-Bill

Were you involved in the Heath High School incident in 97 ?

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
It’s from someone who has been to two active shooters. Someone who refuses to make excuses about resources and let people die because I’m too lazy to train.

I have stepped over the dead that someone should have been there to help, and often it was a distance shot that could have saved them. So don’t fucking tell me to “get a grip”. I’ve firmly got a grip, and that grip isn’t running and hiding because things got hard. And it surely isn’t hiding behind made up statistics.

Spare me the “you’re a cop” crap. Even if I wasn’t on the job I still would not let people die. And part of that effort is not being lazy on front loading the training for all situations. Even the hard stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by Ironmike57:
Were you involved in the Heath High School incident in 97 ?

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
It’s from someone who has been to two active shooters. Someone who refuses to make excuses about resources and let people die because I’m too lazy to train.

I have stepped over the dead that someone should have been there to help, and often it was a distance shot that could have saved them. So don’t fucking tell me to “get a grip”. I’ve firmly got a grip, and that grip isn’t running and hiding because things got hard. And it surely isn’t hiding behind made up statistics.

Spare me the “you’re a cop” crap. Even if I wasn’t on the job I still would not let people die. And part of that effort is not being lazy on front loading the training for all situations. Even the hard stuff.

Yes. To a lesser extent than Marshall. Times,, protocol and training changed a lot between the two. I got to Marshall 18 minutes after the first shots were fired, and rolled in with the first SWAT element.

Thanks. I remember the incident. You must have been near rookis status then(1997).

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by Ironmike57:
Were you involved in the Heath High School incident in 97 ?

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
It’s from someone who has been to two active shooters. Someone who refuses to make excuses about resources and let people die because I’m too lazy to train.

I have stepped over the dead that someone should have been there to help, and often it was a distance shot that could have saved them. So don’t fucking tell me to “get a grip”. I’ve firmly got a grip, and that grip isn’t running and hiding because things got hard. And it surely isn’t hiding behind made up statistics.

Spare me the “you’re a cop” crap. Even if I wasn’t on the job I still would not let people die. And part of that effort is not being lazy on front loading the training for all situations. Even the hard stuff.

Yes. To a lesser extent than Marshall. Times,, protocol and training changed a lot between the two. I got to Marshall 18 minutes after the first shots were fired, and rolled in with the first SWAT element.

So I ran 100 rounds of 165 Grain .40 today and 100 rounds of 9mm.

I really enjoy .40 for a couple of reasons and because of the platforms I run it from.
-My .40s are SIGs and HKs and were designed around the cartridge and really make it a pleasure to shoot. I never cared for Glocks in .40.

-I like that when I run .40 the recoil impulse is never drastically different then most defensive ammo.

-The blast impulse of .40 is so much more pleasant IMO then .357 SIG.

-I tend to want to OVER control 9mm and 357 SIG where .40 just sort of seems to fall into a sweet spot of how I control it. (All a training issue and completely due to the untrained monkey behind the trigger)

-I do like that .40 is carrying both velocity and weight. I don’t get hung up on ballistics minutiae but I just sort of subconsciously like the .40.

-165 and 180 grain HST perform really well.

-I like the fact that the flat nosed plinking ammo in .40 is still both fairly hot and provides a big flat frontal area. So in the event good ammo isn’t available I feel like crappy .40 beats crappy 9mm/.357 SIG.

All in all I genuinely like .40 especially vs .357 SIG. I have the fewest firearms chambered in it by far and do honestly believe that the 9x19 is the best packaged self defense caliber yet even as folks leave the .40 I still find myself enjoying it very much and I believe it makes an excellent self defense or woods caliber.

I would make this a caliber war but alas I am in the 9mm.40.45.357.38 10mm.....etc etc etc camp so I will say definitively that I absolutely feel they are all far better then .25 ACP.

Toyed with the idea of a 357 Sig, but opted to go G20 instead.

I have both and like the 357 Sig. Is fun to shoot.

I own both and they feel the same to shoot. The cost to shoot .357 sig is crazy expensive. I still purchase ammunition to train with before it it comes into my EDC rotation. I shoot the .40S&W more often due to the cost of ammunition has dropped. I would say get both or buy the one and get the barrel in the other caliber.

I love the .357 cartridge, but finally gave up on it.

Near 357 mag velocity out of a 9mm frame-size pistol, whats not to love? I've had Glock 32, P239, P229, P320, HK P2000sk all chambered in .357, and as much as I loved it the round was the most problematic I ever tried.

In my Glocks for example, gold dots would hang at the bottom of the feed ramp...till I replaced the barrel with a kkm barrel. Other pistols would cause setback, or similar issues. Everyone says the bottleneck cartridge is more reliable.... but not in my experience.

I switched to 10mm, and have not had a single issue since in a G29.3 and a XDM 10mm. Plus the 10mm pistols give me the option of shooting .40mm without changing a damned thing when I'm feeling cheap.

How does running .40 in an unmodified 10mm auto pistol work? 10mm is a fair bit longer then .40 (relatively speaking). The case is the same diameter but wouldn’t there be feed issues with the stubby round with the extra space in the magazine? Wouldn’t the round seat shallow in the chamber?

You have sparked my curiosity?

And just to tack on, what kinds of problems were you having with the SIGs? I'm not trying to start an argument; I've just had zero problems with a 226ST, 250F and 320F.

I've posted on the 357 Sig several times. My agency issued legacy P229 and P239 in 357 Sig for twelve years. Great guns and cartridge. Very accurate and recoil is slightly less than 40. The muzzle report is horrendous and I attribute hearing loss to hours instructing on the range with 357 Sig. I witnessed two on duty shootings with this round, a neighboring Agency 226 357 Sig with Speer Gold dot and my own agency Win Ranger. Nothing spectacular and the threat wasn't stopped right away. Ammo is expensive for 357 Sig and again the muzzle report is harsh. As far as long range accuracy, I had no problem shooting at 100 yards on Jerry's course with my G22 40 cal.