Anyone with first hand experience? I want a pistol caliber carbine and I really don’t want a 9mm AR..
I don’t know what I really want besides an MP5 clone like the PTR for example but that’s a hell of a lot of money.. I want a pcc mainly for fun and possibly home defense if need be. I’ve considered a 9mm vector, MP5, stribog, B&T and Scorpion evo. Honestly the scorpion doesn’t impress me much but the price is pretty tempting.
I want something thats pretty easy to shoot fast and accurately with.

Cough, cough, I prefer my GHM45, Kriss V, and MPX in that order.



My MPX and Kriss V are in que for sbr.



The GHM9 can be had in gen2 and gen2 glock mag lowers. Kriss has it's SDP in 9mm, The MPX Copperhead seems to be a great option also.

The Scorpion I had was a fun suppressor host as were the AR 9mms but after sinking in all the money with accessories makes me just want to buy one of those cheap Extar that use Glock mags and be done with it. I shot a friend’s MPX and MP5 and they were fun but can’t justify spending that much on one plus $50 mags don’t excite me.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I’m not interested in an MPX, I count that in the AR category (even though it’s not really) the mag prices and sigs bs games of discontinuing long guns and cutting off thier support are a no go for me

I've got a Scorpion Carbine. Simply can't beat the price and performance you receive. Magazines are plentiful and dirt cheap. There really isn't a downside to the Scorpion. After-market support is also improving, with Magpul jumping onboard.

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I’m not interested in an MPX, I count that in the AR category (even though it’s not really) the mag prices and sigs bs games of discontinuing long guns and cutting off thier support are a no go for me

I think you are doing yourself a disservice there. The MPX PCC is the current itineration of the mpx, as is the copperhead (pistol). Both are built on a solid proven platform. They take the best of an AR platform 9mm and provide a lot of benifits. That being said, I am currently building an FM Products 9mm pistol. So....

quote:

Originally posted by DSgrouse:

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I’m not interested in an MPX, I count that in the AR category (even though it’s not really) the mag prices and sigs bs games of discontinuing long guns and cutting off thier support are a no go for me

I think you are doing yourself a disservice there. The MPX PCC is the current itineration of the mpx, as is the copperhead (pistol). Both are built on a solid proven platform. They take the best of an AR platform 9mm and provide a lot of benifits. That being said, I am currently building an FM Products 9mm pistol. So....

FM's Side charging 9mm upper is super sweet looking. I think they are on point. I was going to go that route and ended up with a MPX.

I like the Scorpion so far. Easy to shoot, dead nuts reliable, accurate, and lots of aftermarket support if you don’t like the ergos. I’m all in so far about $1100 (TRS optic not in pic)
vault boy logo

No doubt my B&T is nicer than my scorpions and other 9mm PCC's, but I think the Scorpion is fun because there is so much aftermarket support.

One of mine is an SBR and the other is a Micro/K configuration with collapsible brace and 4" barrel. Changing the parts out is half the fun imo; not much is stock on mine anymore.

If it's purely price you're looking for, the Aero Survival Rifle is a cool little carbine that takes Glock mags. Ergos are a bit odd and there's no last round bolt hold open, but it's really lightweight, compact, all metal and affordable.

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:

I want something thats pretty easy to shoot fast and accurately with.

If this is what you really want, go with a B&T if you got the coin.
Triggers are second to none.

The only things holding me back from B&T are some of them are known to not cycle hollow points too well and braces for them are way over priced.
I’d like to keep it at or under a grand but I’m still liking the idea of a PTR MP5 clone.
I think the vector is cool, and they are right at a grand these days but I keep reading mixed reviews on them.

The early GHM9’s didn’t feed hollow points. They changed the feed ramps right away and it’s fixed, FYI. That was in 2016 or first half of 2017, I forget.

And I agree, the collapsible wire bracelets is crazy expensive. It’s $600 for the GHM and about $80 more for the APC. You can use other braces that aren’t as expensive though.

Hope that info helped some.

Copper customs brace adapter for the ghm9 is quite a bit cheaper

https://coppercustom.com/coppe...-copper-ghm9-adapter

So nobody knows anything about the stribog? It looks pretty nice. Only thing I don’t like is the reciprocating charging handle

Me => MPX. Got a reasonably good price on a Gen2 8" with the folding brace at the time; it amounted to about a $400 premium over the then going rate for a EVO3, which has since come down about $100 while subsequent Gen2 variations have spiked even higher, to a point that now a MPX is more than double the price of a base Scorpion pistol. Definitely hard to swallow that kind of diff and hit to the wallet.

SIG tries to ignore the Scorpion and focus its marketing on wooing the MP5 lusting crowd. So Scorpions outsell MPXs in a big, BIG way. The Scorpion aftermarket has grown faster as a consequence. With the MPX, SIG fails to realize that one can make serious money with volume at lower prices over limited sales at premium price levels.

Magazine prices suck. Factory part prices suck. Unfulfilled promises of caliber conversion kits suck. The AR MIL-spec level factory trigger sucks. Abandonment of the original Gen1 design sucks. Being "sucky" is the legacy of the MPX, which is too, too bad because the stupid thing is a pretty good gun. Overpriced, but still pretty darn good.

That SIG drew from the AR platform in designing the MPX was a significant factor to me. It brings a readily available aftermarket, at least to a point. The EVO3 back then didn't have that, though things have changed considerably in the past couple of years. Yet I still don't regret my choice of rabbit hole, although I seemed to have gone down the same hole as I do with ARs, never leaving well enough alone and spending way too much on revising things that really don't need it. But there ARE some things that do, and I'm thankful that the AR world had answers to at least some of those.

No hands-on experience with the Stribog. Had one come in as a customer transfer, but didn't get to handle it before it was picked up. Did see that reciprocating charging handle; my impression was it resides to the support hand a little too close for comfort, at least psychologically.

I've handled the PTR clones a couple of times, and different Zenith configurations. All were quite tempting, I must say. I've only seen the POF-5 from a distance; a LGS had one come in as a transfer while I was BSing with the owner of the shop. More fuel for the inner fire. I've also handled and now shot the SP5K (I brought one in from HK for a coworker, as well as several for the store), and that too buzzed the "wanna have" center in my brain. I'd still like to see if PSA can actually hit anywhere close to the price point that they were aiming for with their MP5 clone, IF it ever comes to market. As much as I've been pleased with my MPX, it's still not a MP5 no matter how hard SIG tries to sell the gun as its successor.

B&T? Never seen one in the flesh.

And as for the EVO3: I've handled plenty since I started working at the shop. I've shot a few because buddies chose it over the SIG or others. To me it's okay out of the box. It needs a better trigger and an ambi safety delete and a better grip. It could stand to be less "plasticky", but that's probably what made it into a $800 gun in the first place. I don't like the factory carbine as much as the pistol variants; for that length I'd rather save $300 and have a Ruger PC Carbine and use my 33RD Glock mags.

As for AR9s: I've built one in the Glock pattern and it's been a fine gun so far. Wasn't exactly cheap when all was said and done.

I have a PSA 9mm AR and a Ruger PC Carbine.

The AR is a nice practice tool for my .223 rifles that I can shoot on the pistol-caliber only ranges at my club. It did take quite a bit of trial and error to get it to run right...i experienced some doubling and OOB issues early on. I had to file down the inside of the bolt where the hammer was impacting because it was out of spec and damaging the FCG. An extended heavy 9mm buffer was also necessary to solve some feeding problems. I have it dialed in pretty much how I want it, except that the bolt-hold-open doesn't work, but that's an issue of the PSA lower and BCG combo that isn't going to be fixed without replacing those.

The Ruger PC Carbine is a nice little rifle at a good price. It has a couple of issues, though. It's heavier than it needs to be, IMO, and while the takedown barrel facilitates a quick fieldstrip, a thorough cleaning requires tools. I'm not a fan of how the charging handle has to be screwed into the bolt...you have to torque it down hard to keep it from working loose during firing, and I have my doubts about how long the threads will hold up through repeated cycles of this. It wouldn't be such an issue if blowback actions weren't so incredibly filthy.

My $0.02...if I was going to do it all over again, I wouldn't buy either of them, save my money, and get an MPX, MP5 clone, or maybe the CMMG guard...something that's not straight blowback.