Pages of discussions about Smileys on barrels. Grease, oil or grease with an oil floater. Shiny, grey or silver frame rails? DAK vs TDA. Are CPO guns worth the money? Are they just coated with a pass of Krylon to hide the wear? Will refinishing my Sig remove the Hard Coat anodizing?

I’ve owned, and carried, a bunch of Sigs. P232. P230. P220. P225, P226. I still carry a P239 in 357 SIG DAK or the same in 9 mm daily. I own a P365. A P232.

I’ve loved Sig. I wasn’t impressed with the rainbow finish, but, to each his own. I’m saddened by the P320 issues.

I guess I just miss the good old days. Just good solid carry guns. To Hell and back reliability. Not stupid marketing hype.

C’mon Sig. you have a reputation to uphold.

I’ll never get rid of my legacy Sigs. Am I a little squeamish about carrying a P365 appendix? Yeah. I am now.

My Gunbroker searches for P230's often will erroneously include a P320 in the search results. The contrast between the old simplicity and new complexity is stunning.

Was mulling the issues over the past weekend, and came to the realization that I have the answer to the question of which SIG on hand best meets my needs. Answer: the SP 2022.

But my 320s are normally used as bedside guns in a Sticky holster, so the risk of a discharge is even more remote than a maintained service pistol. I'll keep them.

I don't think the new designs are any more complex. The P320 is actually remarkably easy to detail strip...much moreso than a P22X gun.

The problem lies in the physics of a pre-tensioned striker. On a gun like the 320, all of the energy necessary to fire the gun is stored and contained within the action any time the gun is loaded and chambered. Firing the gun simply involves releasing that energy, so the design of the gun is all about avoiding that release until the user is ready for it to happen.

Contrast that to a DA platform, where pulling the trigger loads the spring and creates the energy necessary to fire the gun. That energy isn't there when the gun is loaded and chambered (decocked) in the holster, so apart from internal drop-safeties (energy imparted from outside forces through impact/inertia), you don't really have to worry about it.

If a part fails in a DA handgun, most of the time that means that the gun isn't going to fire when you want it to. When a part fails in a pre-cocked striker action, there's a very real possibility that the gun will fire when you don't want it to.

Add to that the short, light trigger pull, and you're also introducing a greater chance of user-induced error.

I have a lot of rounds through both platforms, and in my experience, the P320 has been just as reliable if not more reliable than the P226/P229/P220. It goes bang every time we ask it to. The concern is the greater likelihood of it doing that when we don't.

Amen! It seemed like there was just a much greater pride of ownership with the older SIGs. I feel like people bought and enjoyed the old SIGs whereas with the new ones it’s all about having to futz with them. Not so much to get them to operate reliably but to tweak it enough to your liking so that you would enjoy it as much as people enjoyed their old school SIGs right out of the box. It just seems like one doesn’t get the same feeling from buying a new 320 as they would from buying one of the classics.

My 320’s have always been great shooters. I loved stippling grip modules and making the guns “mine”. That being said it does not take a fortune teller to figure this one out. It doesn’t matter if the guns “just go off by themselves” anymore (I don’t believe they do). No one would be foolish enough to ever switch to a 320 after all this. Fair? Who knows, the market is a fickle bitch and Sig didn’t do themselves any favors over the years.

It will be interesting to see where they go from here. Pretending the 320 is still a market force is a fantasy land they can’t afford to wade in for too long.

I do have some sympathy for them though. The legions of people willing to pile on for THEIR OWN PERSONAL GAIN is disgusting. Guys like stoeger will never see my business. He doesn’t care but I think your integrity should be worth more than clicks. This has been a sad episode on many, many levels.

I still have a couple 320’s. At this point they are fairly worthless from a sales/trade standpoint. What they are though is still outstanding shooters. I would have zero issue carrying them in the very solid, non light bearing holsters I own without any fear of them just lighting off. Would I appendix? Fuck no. But I don’t appendix many guns and none that don’t have a manual safety (BG 2.0 and 365).

Oh well. My Mountain Gun 686 won’t just go off in my pants. lol

This message has been edited. Last edited by: pedropcola,

Well said, 92fstech. You summed up nicely the main reason I will never own a striker fired gun. But if you like them, shoot them.
Rod

I mis the old days also and have been sick of everything P320 since day one.
While change is always good and the P320 has brought a lot of traffic and content to the forum but it has always rubbed me wrong. I know just keep scrolling on by which I have done for the most part but its hard to not see what has gone on and how sig handles the P320 issues.
They and a few other well known “experts” denied the whole drop safe fiasco until it was completely proven that it was beyond a doubt to be a problem and after the way that was handled its hard not to feel like all of these latest issues are exactly the same.
Deny deny deny seems to be Sigs mo. I will never own a P320 and would hate to be leo that has no choice in the matter.
Regardless what the real issue is one thing is for sure something in common is happening regardless if its user/holster or gun related something in common is happening and the odds are not in the P320 users favor.
I thankfully have all the old school Sigs, Glocks and other proven brands and designs I will ever need in my lifetime so I have well proven options to meet all my needs as safely as I could expect or need.

I remember them and miss them. It has nothing to do with the 320 for me.. Just a simpler time. Just seemed like less BS in all areas

I remember the days when the only concern is if I picked up one of the newer 22X series guns that had a problem extractor. I went full Glock for most things but man, I need to shoot my 226s and Sp2022 (and the wife’s 938) more. And never should’ve gotten rid of my 220 SAO.

Maybe I need a 220 with a rail after all.

I remember when SiG's were either matter blued, k-kote or nickel. The grips were either plastic, wood or Hogue ribber. Everything you needed nothing you don't. No rails or tails or optics cuts.

I had about 8k rounds or more through a p229 with zero real failures. I watched multiple people put at least that many rounds through p229s with the same outcome.

I put about 5k rounds through a p320 and again I had zero failures. Problem is during that same time my P320 was working, I watched numerous P320 failures. I've yet to see one spontaneously discharge, although it happened to someone I know, witnessed by about 10 people. I've seen personally about 4 trigger spring failures that result in a dead gun. I've had friends witness many more. Again, I've personally watched two p365s have critical failures that caused a dead gun.

I own several sigs, but I don't have the faith and confidence in them that used to, specifically the p320 and p365 lines.

I don't know what happened to quality control, I just want them to bring it back.

I had one of those CPO’s with the crappy finish that would scrape off with a fingernail once it started flaking. I think in hindsight, most of what we worried about in those days about fifteen years ago really wound up being non-issues.

I had the P320 on my wishlist, then just never got around to it, and now… I don’t want one. I missed a whole era of Sig, really. Sold off all my German and West Germans, then picked up a West German P226 that I’ll never willingly part with. Still need to find a clean SP2022 for a decent price. That era of Sig was really above question, to my mind.

I remember the folded slide P226 I sold to an officer in Charleston to fund some other project-wish I’d have kept that one.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
I had one of those CPO’s with the crappy finish that would scrape off with a fingernail once it started flaking. I think in hindsight, most of what we worried about in those days about fifteen years ago really wound up being non-issues. .

It’s funny. I thought the same thing and wondered, how many of those guns that caused such angst 20 years ago, are still shooting today.

What with their barrel smileys and gray frame rail wear? Almost assuredly none of them.

When it comes to reminiscing about the Good, Old Days of SIG discussions, this query comes to my mind (because I’m one who asked it and was gently guided toward how the “Search” function on the Forum works haha…)

These P6s on the market now - are they any good?

Aren't "the good old days" what led to Sig almost going under? I know a lot of members here dislike Sig's leadership, but like him or not, Ronnie brought Sig back from the brink.

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:
Aren't "the good old days" what led to Sig almost going under? I know a lot of members here dislike Sig's leadership, but like him or not, Ronnie brought Sig back from the brink.

I’d argue that in many ways the current SIG is SIG in name only and that the SIG that we used to love fell off the brink and no longer exists. Maybe SIG could have been turned into a more profitable operation that isn’t as profitable as the current company without so many changes that have so considerably eroded the “To Hell and back reliability” ethos? I think that’s what I would long for. It really is sad that SIG is now seen so broadly across the spectrum as a company that uses the consumer as beta testers for new products. SIG used to be a company that you could buy from and know you were going to have something damn near flawless right out of the box. As Don Henley would say, “Those days are gone forever.”

For me, the Good Old Days started when I took my first class with Bruce Gray, when Bruce taught them all with help from his crew including Flork and Tang. There followed several years of acquiring new pistols, learning run-and-gun techniques, competing in a few friendly competitions for semi-autos and revolvers.
Probably because of the rigorous training, the DA/SA action still feels inherently safest and best to me; especially with my GGI-tuned action in y non-rail W German P226. Yes, I've added a RDS and rosewood grips, but I still love to shoot it, and when possible, carry it (really only for classes which these days is seldom).
They were also the Good Old Days because of friendships formed through Bruce's classes, and later Randy Lee's tactical shotgun and ICORE classes. My son John was very involved in all those, a major reason for reminiscing. He lives far away now, has his own kids so his life has changed.

Elsewhere I posted about shooting the P365 and P320. The 320 is a serviceable pistol, nothing really to complain about, but not especially exciting. But the 365--I can get excited about that as I now have a CCW license.