Pretty sure these are for whatever 320 comes with the Romeo 1. I can't keep track anymore. They wanted optics ready with the optic installed.

I drive through their every time I head East. I also went there most Winters for the annual Boy Scout pancake breakfast and on the 4th of July for the firefighters breakfast.

quote:

Originally posted by maddy345:

quote:

Originally posted by maxwayne:
Sorry, here is a link: https://www.pantagraph.com/eed...cf-c2bbc9be2b3d.html

I’m from just outside Bloomington… small town called Downs. Didn’t expect a Pantagraph link

quote:

Originally posted by GeoJelly:
Good point on the qualification scores improving. I had my M18/320 (M18 FCU w/ Compact conv kit) out to the range last Friday. Among the five pistols I took, the P320 was the clear winner for group size, and easy to disassemble and clean when I returned. The only downside I can think of is I need another FCU

Everybody that 'buys in' on the P320 eventually lands right there...

quote:

Originally posted by Texaspoff:

quote:

Originally posted by 22940:
According to my calculator, that is $582 per P320. I would have thought they could get a better price.

The article is likely reporting what the city has listed on their budget for the purchase.

When I did ours, it includes the pistol, extra magazines, holsters, mag carriers, WML, and transitional training.

Not saying they are purchasing the same, but anything needed or required for the purchase is part of that line item.

The total for ours was $62k and some change, for 35 weapons and all the trimmings. Broken down it was less than $400 per weapon, which included night sights and three mags. These figures were in 2016. In all fairness I did pad the numbers a bit cause myself and the other instructors were against department issued pistols.


TXPO

Out of curiosity why don't you like dept issued pistols?

Because he is a gun enthusiast and wants the freedom to carry his weapon, spec'ed by him, that he chooses.

Thats my guess.

Maybe they have a bunch of old timers that still carry 1911's? No way in hell is a 1911 getting issued these days...

quote:

Originally posted by simmy952:
The OH state patrol switched to the P320. Have talked to several troopers. Not one has a bad thing to say about the switch. They were carrying P226 in .40. It's not about the caliber it's the gun they like. Most have stated that the qualifying score have went up.

Qualifying scores with .40 are consistently low.

The muzzle flip makes the follow up shots difficult.

My dept went from the P226R in .40, to the P320. This was before the trigger problems. We were allowed to buy our old 320 (after the trigger upgrade)for about $350.00. This included three mags.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
Because he is a gun enthusiast and wants the freedom to carry his weapon, spec'ed by him, that he chooses.

I've got the best of both worlds. We have issued Glock 17s/19s, but also have the leeway to carry a personal weapon, provided you're not a marginal shooter and the weapon is approved by the Training Supervisor (me).

I choose to carry my own P320, and often my P365 when working in plainclothes.

quote:

Maybe they have a bunch of old timers that still carry 1911's? No way in hell is a 1911 getting issued these days...

You'd think that, but it's actually not the case. There are still a few departments out there still issuing 1911s. One of them is about an hour east of me: Berryville, Arkansas, which is the home of Wilson Combat. Berryville PD issues... Wilson Combat 1911s. (Shocking, I know.)

There is definitely a part of me that wishes I could carry whatever I want to work. But the instructor/armorer part of me is happy that we've standardized on a particular platform. It keeps things a LOT simpler. And honestly, for a duty gun, I'd probably carry a P320 anyway.

my agency...a major fed agency....switched from the 229R DAK .40 to the 320 X Carry 9mm. The govt doesn't do many things right, but this they hit it out the park. As an FI with the agency we had the same struggling shooters each quarter. The stupid DAK trigger didn't help. Add to that the .40 is just more difficult to shoot for numerous reasons. Now that we have transitioned to the 320 we have ZERO struggling shooters. Most are shooting lights out even. It's really amazing to witness. Most of the guys who chose to run Glocks have offloaded them and accpted the 320 X Carry as their primary, me included.

My department looked hard at p320s in 9mm and from the rumor mill it seemed like a done deal. Then COVID hit, overtime budgets skyrocketed, and pretty much all purchases and anything that would require additional training sessions got put on hold. Hopefully we will revisit it in the next year or so. I like the p229 DAK, but a lighter pistol with a better trigger would be a good thing.

As far as scores, a class of recruits got to shoot them and scores were higher across the board than the same recruits firing the same course of fire with the .40 p229s.

So, I presume all those p229s are worn out and broken and that is why 'The City' needs to spend the money on all new pistols?

Just seems strange to me that most law enforcement agencies find a need to replace weapons every couple of years....

cajunmuscle, do all those non-stupid 320's have RDS's?

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
cajunmuscle, do all those non-stupid 320's have RDS's?

Thanks for listing another reason for moving to a modern platform.

One could argue the reason departments choose the the DAK triggers in the first place, in an era of culture-canceling, diversity and inclusive hiring practices, was to make the guns "safer" to appease the politically correct. Police officers should never need to use their weapons and when they do, let's make it harder for them to hit the suspect.

I believe the story said the night sights were dead and many of the guns had been back once or twice for repairs.

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
So, I presume all those p229s are worn out and broken and that is why 'The City' needs to spend the money on all new pistols?

Just seems strange to me that most law enforcement agencies find a need to replace weapons every couple of years....

If the guns aren't shot out or a maintenance problem, why not?

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by maxwayne:
There was an article in the paper this am that the city is trading in their 229R DAK .40's for 140 new 9mm 320's. The city is paying $81,500 for the pistols.

There is currently 70k rounds of .40 on hand that will be traded in for credit. In January, 110K rounds of 9mm was purchased.

Officers can purchase their 40's for $320 and the others will be traded in for $365 in credit.

The same thing needs to happen at the Memphis PD. Qualification scores would skyrocket.
In 2021, they should not be carrying Sig 229 DAK .40s.

quote:

I’m from just outside Bloomington… small town called Downs. Didn’t expect a Pantagraph link

Even though I was the one complaining about LEO departments trading out all their guns.... I just realized this is a good thing for many of us.... I think at least two of my P239's are ex LEO guns. I know one came from the Phonix police dept.

quote:

Originally posted by 22940:
According to my calculator, that is $582 per P320. I would have thought they could get a better price.

As mentioned most Agency purchases include Holsters, extra mags, spare parts, different size grip modules, armorer training, Armorer tools etc. Blue simmunitions guns for force on force training, red dummy guns for other type of training such as recruits or defensive tactics.

Plus duty guns are usually a 10 to 15 year (or more) investment so if they are smart, they are getting guns with optics or at least a modular optics cut such as the SIG PRO cut to modernize in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
So, I presume all those p229s are worn out and broken and that is why 'The City' needs to spend the money on all new pistols?

Just seems strange to me that most law enforcement agencies find a need to replace weapons every couple of years....

I work for the same agency as Cajunmuscle. We had 299DAK's issued for 15 years (2005 to 2020ish). Guns that are carried / used on duty daily live a harder life than guns that go from safe to range or even CCW use.

The guns (in 40) need preventive maintenance starting at the 3,000 to 5,000 round mark and re-build at 10k. Night sights are dead, springs need to be replaced, gunk, and cheeto crumbs need to be cleaned out of the internals etc.

The labor and parts costs of having dept armorers re-build the guns exceeds the cost of new guns.

Plus the DAK sucks when you try to shoot it at the speeds at which shootings occur in the real world. As one of my mentors (a big fan of DA/SA SIG) put it "the DAK sucks all the joy out of shooting a SIG."

I carried the DAK 40 when I ran my office's firearms program just to show the "company gun" was viable but dumped it for a Glock 17 ASAP when I rotated out of that position. When I was there I had 700 shooters with over 1,000 guns to keep track of maintenance on.

Having seen people shot with both 9mm and .40 they both work fine but the 9mm gives you more rounds and lets you make hits faster. No matter how much of a "he-man" you are, you will be faster with the 9mm and in a fight, bullets are opportunities, 17 or 21 rounds > 12.

Anything that lets my people make better, faster hits in a fight is worth the money.

Speaking of, the biggest cost in any LE firearms program is not guns, or even ammo (which lifetime is often 10 to 20x the cost of the gun) but man hours.

An LEO making $40 per hour doesn't qualify with their 229 DAK 40. Now I have to have that LEO and at least two Firearms instructors go back out to the range and not just re-try the qual and hope for the best but provide 8 hours of remedial training to ensure they are good to go if they get in an actual shooting.

So 40+40+40 = $120 per hour x 8 hours ($960) just in man-hours at the range, plus $960 to cover the shifts the LEO and two FI's were supposed to be working.

So if I can get one less shooter who needs remedial training each quarter by buying a $500 9mm pistol and/or optic, I'm still ahead $1420.

Not to mention the real world benefits of improved hit potential; on the street there is no such thing as a miss - every round fired hits something or someone.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
cajunmuscle, do all those non-stupid 320's have RDS's?

No, though many of us FI's recommended at least buying all optics cut guns (as Border Patrol and Secret Service did) to "future proof" them before they were purchased.

Certain units are being issued new slides with Romeo1PRO's. All LEOs will have the option for approved personally owned 320s and Gen 4 MOS with either the Romeo1PRO or the Type 2 RMR.

They did issue 4 mags, a weapons' mounted light (TLR-1) at least 2 holsters with each gun, one of which was a WML capable Duty/tactical rig. We've had to locally purchase WML and corresponding holsters for the past 10 years so it's a (belated) step forward.