So this is a thing now (or will be soon) :

http://firecontrolunit.com/


The X01 standard model can be chambered in 9x19mm Parabellum, .357 SIG, and .40 S&W by transplanting the corresponding P320 components (.45 ACP is in development, as the changes in magazine well dimensions require a specialized lower receiver). The X01 body is injection-molded in the US with glass filled nylon. The rear of the lower receiver features a vertical M1913 Picatinny rail for integration with SIG® MPX//MCX buttstocks and arm braces, such as models manufactured by SIG® and SB Tactical®. This rail can also adopt a sling attachment for outward tension stabilization, a non-shouldering cheek rest, or be left empty for concealed carry.



The X01 features an upper/lower receiver construction that attaches via the forward receiver hinge and is locked in place by a rear recoil spring guide. Models equipped with a dual-rod buttstock or arm brace will also lock together via two guide rod channels that span both the upper and lower receiver for added stability. The upper receiver features shell deflection ramps to mitigate malfunctions. Steps to clear a malfunction are identical to the P320 with the exception of working the action via the charging handle rather than the slide itself. The upper receiver was designed to accommodate suppressor iron sights.



The non-reciprocating charging handle locks the action open (the slide to the rear) with an upward motion when fully retracted. The action can then be released with a downward motion (akin to HK-style weapon systems). In addition, if the charging handle is in the forward position, the slide can be released via the FCU slide release during reload procedures. The X01 features three M-Lok slots near the muzzle for accessory and grip attachments. The upper receiver features a 19-slot milspec M1913 picatinny rail. Pistol/rifle backup iron sights (BUIS) are suggested for co-witness capability with low profile optics. The lower receiver features dual quick-detach (QD) points.



The X01 was designed with ergonomics in mind and features an integrated angled foregrip with a substantial hand stop hook to prevent the support hand from slipping in front of the muzzle during dynamic weapon manipulation. Additional hand stops and grip accessories can be attached via the M-LOK® slots for a custom ergonomic interface. All components of the X01 are manufactured in the United States.

These things seem to bubble up on occasion, and they never seem to catch on. Some use a pistols frame, some have used the whole gun.

It seems like the advantage to this one, is that you're closer than ever before to creating an illegal SBR. What with the way the P320 frame isn't really the registered piece and is completely replaced. and the "brace." If it is offered with a proper buttstock, I'm puzzled how that doesn't make an SBR.

The earliest version of this sort of nonsense I can recall, are the carbines for 1911s, but that is a whole "upper" with a 16" barrel.

Small submachineguns and PDWs have very specific roles, and an even narrower subset is "machine pistols," the best example off the top of my head would be the Steyr TMP.

A pistol has specific purposes and advantages, a small submachinegun has specific purposes and advantages. Every time one of these kits come out, it just seems to me to be an expensive pistol shell with none of the actual advantages of a proper PDW or submachinegun.

I forget what the most recent of these was called, but I see it in my mind... I'd say that this one will soon be forgotten in the same way. I'm sure people will buy this, and they can have it.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
These things seem to bubble up on occasion, and they never seem to catch on. Some use a pistols frame, some have used the whole gun.

It seems like the advantage to this one, is that you're closer than ever before to creating an illegal SBR. What with the way the P320 frame isn't really the registered piece and is completely replaced. and the "brace." If it is offered with a proper buttstock, I'm puzzled how that doesn't make an SBR.

The earliest version of this sort of nonsense I can recall, are the carbines for 1911s, but that is a whole "upper" with a 16" barrel.

Small submachineguns and PDWs have very specific roles, and an even narrower subset is "machine pistols," the best example off the top of my head would be the Steyr TMP.

A pistol has specific purposes and advantages, a small submachinegun has specific purposes and advantages. Every time one of these kits come out, it just seems to me to be an expensive pistol shell with none of the actual advantages of a proper PDW or submachinegun.

I forget what the most recent of these was called, but I see it in my mind... I'd say that this one will soon be forgotten in the same way. I'm sure people will buy this, and they can have it.

Party pooper

This one seems like it might not require a ton of SBR paperwork. That's been the previous barrier to such endeavours.

Has anyone drop tested it on UTUBE yet?

quote:

Originally posted by caneau:
Party pooper

This one seems like it might not require a ton of SBR paperwork. That's been the previous barrier to such endeavours.

If it's got a short barrel and a stock....

I've always been skeptical of the "brace" business. If it doesn't have anything buttstockesque, it's a pistol.

If people want to have fun, I'm not opposed, but lets not confuse these with actually useful weapons. The one I was thinking of before, is this stupid thing.

By the time someone has dumped a bunch of cash into one of these, they could have had something that isn't a turd, like an SP89, or Steyr SPP, or any real gun.

The latest versions of the SIGTac Adaptive Carbine Platform (ACP).

Chinese made FOD for ninja warriors.

Perhaps I'm too old to see the fascination with such things. I don't mean to offend anyone, but It has always seemed to me that these are for wannabe commandos who can't afford, or whose laws don't allow, a real SMG. I got paid to carry a gun for most of my adult life. I would not have wanted to be required to carry a giant plastic shell of a thing with my actual pistol inside.....ymmv

I've shot pistols with arm braces against my cheek. I can't stand them, they are horrible handling and shooting when compared to a proper sbr. I'll happily spend $200 to gain the handling of a stock.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
I'd say that this one will soon be forgotten in the same way. I'm sure people will buy this, and they can have it.

+1

I can think of a boatload of better ways to waste my money.

The current thinking seems to be that the ATF has given up on the concept that shouldering a brace "modifies" the gun to be an SBR. So you can now actually use them as a stock, even if they supposedly weren't designed as such.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
I've shot pistols with arm braces against my cheek. I can't stand them, they are horrible handling and shooting when compared to a proper sbr. I'll happily spend $200 to gain the handling of a stock.

While I'm not interested in this item, I would like to see a Mechtech conversion for the P320.

A Mechtech kit would be a nice conversion, particularly in 357SIG. I have one in .40S&W for my G22 and a buddy has his G20 kit. Fun stuff shooting pistol caliber carbines with calibers that have a bit of pop to them.

I actually like it.. How many rounds in the mags?

guessing it will cost a boat load!!

INTRODUCING!

The Tactical Urban Response Device!

The TURD is made of a space age polymer, and its modularity far exceeds any other accessory pistol frame!

It can fit any pistol, and support any accessory! Including Castles, space ships, and Thomas The Tank Engine!

It floats, is dishwasher safe, and only a few parts are choking hazards!

Not recommended for use in bare feet, do not drop, and remove firearm before letting kids play with it!

"Not recommended for use in bare feet..."

Bwahahahahaha

That is THE most tactical of TURDs. Amazing -- it looks like you can polish it.

Someone must like them because they've been around since the late 19th century.

Arc, perfect. I have a name for it. SIG doesn't throw any ideas away. Interesting concept but it's not a KPOS.

For $75 it's a piece of history.

quote:

Originally posted by Wreckless:

Yet are extremely rare, and used as a rifle with a collapsible stock, not a pistol with an optional buttstock. The idea is a compact "revolving rife," and those revolving rifles can be found well documented. For some reason you don't see many period pictures of a buntline. Really it's not at all the same concept as any of these pistol shells, which aren't rifles, so aren't carbines.

If a revolver with a buttstock were inherently useful, and if indeed these pistol shells or whatever you'd like to call them were, they would be ubiquitous. A poor concept doesn't become a good one because there are historical examples of it.

Particularly in the case of the buntline, some of that history may not actually be history.

It's a toy to hang optics and other accessories off of. For serious use, weapons designed for the role are used, and the pistol retains it's role as the backup.

I would expect the Secret Service and other organizations that need compact weapons to continue to carry pistols, and then also a P90, Mp5k, TMP, or a number of other PDW weapons that actually fully do the role.

Considering the cost of a pistol, and then whatever you'd like to call the unit, and its nebulous potential NFA status, I'm not at all sold on the idea that they are useful or practical. Certainly not compared to simply purchasing a purpose built weapon, or doing the SBR paperwork on one.

These will be range toys.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
The latest versions of the SIGTac Adaptive Carbine Platform (ACP).

Chinese made FOD for ninja warriors.

As told to me, the ACP was a result of a specific RFP from a South American LE agency that was about to take on a high-profile Intenational event (World Cup, IIRC).

The agency involved didn't have the budge to purchase and issue carbines, so they asked for a way to make their existing sidearms more intimidating.

Given the cost of the ACP, it probably worked for that particular application.

Whether those benefits are transferable to subsequent commercial markets is questionable.

American consumers may observe it to be ugly and ridiculous, but for SIG, it was a business move with very little startup cost. I can see why they did it and if they made money one the project, then good for them.

But why these devices continue to be produced (by companies other than SIG), well, you I guess you can chalk it up to the diversity of the marketplace.

Gun companies have to try new stuff in a market that's as slack as this one, some will try new takes on old concepts even if the original executions were failures. Not offering something new is basically conceding yourself to a slow death as a business.

The differentiating factor for FCU, or "why are we trying this again?" is probably BATFE's latest waffle on the stock/brace issue. If BATFE's position hadn't changed back to where it was when the SB15 first came out, we probably wouldn't be seeing this particular offering.