Hate to say it but some of y'all on this thread sound like a bunch of Toyota Camry owners sitting around clucking about why someone would buy a Porsche GT3 RS when there are "more reliable, dependable, affordable" methods to arrive from Point A to B.

It doesn't have to make sense to purchase if you are fan of the platform and have the financial means to do so. It is why I own 2 SP5Ks and intend to own 2-3 more once the SP5 comes out.

For the record, I own 3 W. German Sig P226s now and did not stop for one second to consider a more "practical" choice. That is what my Glock is for.

quote:

Originally posted by indreams84:
Hate to say it but some of y'all on this thread sound like a bunch of Toyota Camry owners sitting around clucking about why someone would buy a Porsche GT3 RS when there are "more reliable, dependable, affordable" methods to arrive from Point A to B.

It doesn't have to make sense to purchase if you are fan of the platform and have the financial means to do so. It is why I own 2 SP5Ks and intend to own 2-3 more once the SP5 comes out.

For the record, I own 3 W. German Sig P226s now and did not stop for one second to consider a more "practical" choice. That is what my Glock is for.

Hmmmmmm. Welcome to SIGforum.

H&K-Guy

quote:

Originally posted by H&K-Guy:

quote:

Originally posted by indreams84:
Hate to say it but some of y'all on this thread sound like a bunch of Toyota Camry owners sitting around clucking about why someone would buy a Porsche GT3 RS when there are "more reliable, dependable, affordable" methods to arrive from Point A to B.

It doesn't have to make sense to purchase if you are fan of the platform and have the financial means to do so. It is why I own 2 SP5Ks and intend to own 2-3 more once the SP5 comes out.

For the record, I own 3 W. German Sig P226s now and did not stop for one second to consider a more "practical" choice. That is what my Glock is for.

Hmmmmmm. Welcome to SIGforum.

H&K-Guy

Haha, hey I am a big Sig guy too. I actually wonder how this thread came up under the "Sig Pistols" forum.

You keep it up and you'll be wondering about it elsewhere. If you have a reasonable argument to present, make your point. If not, just keep your commentary to yourself.

And it's in the pistols section because it's a pistol. If you had pondered this a bit more, perhaps you would have arrived at the answer to your question without having to post it.

I saw that after I had posted it: many other enthusiast sites have a separate area for non-Brand discussions, so my apologies.

My point was that cost/features do not necessarily act as the motivator for our buying decisions, be it gun or otherwise.

Para, perhaps I didn't do a great job illustrating my point. I would certainly agree that given an "either/or" situation, one would certainly be better served with a 5.56 or larger caliber compared to any pistol caliber carbine in a defense/combat scenario. They are simply different classes of firearms.

You're on the mark though. I am at heart a speculator, which is ironic since I don't actually tend to let loose of many acquisitions once I get them. Though, I'd be the first to admit that in most cases they don't perform as well as good stocks or mutual funds. At any rate, that's one of the things I enjoy. Looking up classic military styled firearms and watching them on auction sites. Just a couple weeks ago, I put down a $4K bid on a NIB Belgian LAR 50.63 on GB. It was at about $3300ish when I put down my bid. I suspected it would go as high as $7K. I knew I'd get out bid. Sure enough, it sold over $7K. It was fun to watch. I have an uncle who follows Parkers like that. I don't know squat about Parkers. But I'm a fan of the European exotics.

Anyway, most of us here, tend to be enthusiasts. As such, I would hazard a guess that most of us already have at least one 5.56 carbine, likely many more. With that in mind, the proverbial SHTF contingency is likely covered pretty well. While a PCC is limited when compared to a 5.56 carbine I'm not entirely convinced they don't have merits as a defensive weapon.

I recall when the FBI switched away from 9mm to the 10mm, then the .40 and back to the 9mm. The firearm world can be circular to a point. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that 9mm carbines which have been largely supplanted by their 5.56 counterparts for most uses, may someday find favor once again with new tactical techniques, better ammo and for specialized missions.

A 9mm carbine suppressed is naturally quieter than a suppressed 5.56. I know there are a number of subsonic 9mm rounds but I'm not aware of any subsonic 5.56 or .223. If there was such an animal, I'd imagine due to physics it would be less effective than a subsonic 9mm round. I mean, isn't that the point of the .300BO? These new SP5s with their tri-lug barrels are likely to be very popular for those who want a suppressed carbine. Then there are likely a fair number of registered sear owners who would jump at the chance to have a new run of MP5 hosts.

I suspect HK will sell every single one of these SP5s they make and people will wait in line to get theirs. These things have the added bonus of not being a "new" design. People buying these will not be beta testers. They inspire confidence. We've bandied about these days being the new golden era for gun owners with choices galore. I'd submit that's not entirely true until these things hit the market. At that point, it will be official.

As a matter of fact, I'll go out on a limb Para, and suggest you might just be the IDEAL candidate for one (or two) of these... You, the guy who doesn't even really like them much. Why is that? Because IF (and I do mean IF) you took your time, shopped around for a good buy on a couple of these, and set a couple in the back of your vault for a few years, you could very likely flip them for over double what you paid for them. Being not much a fan, they'd probably be minty and all original unmolested examples. THEN... You could rid yourself of these substandard 'toys' at a considerable profit. Just a thought.

Oh, yeah, I'm the ideal candidate to buy something I don't want. Now you're just being silly. Buy 10 of these paperweights if you want but forget about convincing me of the utility of an obscenely-priced semi-auto version of a submachine gun.

quote:

Originally posted by El Cid 92:
Meh....

lack of support...

Sig

Tee hee hee. Because SIG would NEVER do that.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Oh, yeah, I'm the ideal candidate to buy something I don't want. Now you're just being silly. Buy 10 of these paperweights if you want but forget about convincing me of the utility of an obscenely-priced semi-auto version of a submachine gun.

Of course I'm being silly Para! I'm crazy with silliness. That's part of my charm.

You know, many years ago before the 89 import ban, I felt exactly the same as you about the HK94s. Like most people, I was all about the 91s and to a slightly lesser degree the 93s. As it turned out, the 94s were FAR better long term purchases. If I would have timed it right, I might have been able to get one 94 and turn it into a 91 and a 93. But as they say, hindsight is 20/20.

I can't see the future but if I were to hazard a guess, these things are going to be hot commodities. Now, the more they make, naturally the less they'll be worth. Unlike the original 94s with the "silly" 16" barrels, these new SP5s won't require any barrel chopping, removal or pressing in of a correct MP5 barrel, They will have the MP5 tri-lug barrel right from the start. No muss, no fuss. That's a strong motivator. I would anticipate some cool stuff down the pike. If not from HK directly, I suspect distributors and major dealers will be offering factory correct SBRs.

Due to their popularity (You're gonna like this one Para) I wouldn't rule out other configurations such as that SP53 you mentioned. Oh yeah! And... wait for it... the REAL Hammer of Thor, the All Mighty SP5-10 (as in 10mm!)

As to over priced, well if I had a nickel for every time I heard someone say "Those SCAR 17s are over priced! I can get an M&P10 for less than half the price!" I could have an SP5 for free. I'd say it was all a matter of perspective. Some people pay $20K-$30K for high end shotguns. I'm not one of those folks.

As to paperweight, now Para... Don't ya think that's a little silly?

So, if you're inclined to pass on these SP5s, you might consider a nice pair of Ray Bans, because I think the future just might be pretty bright.

quote:

Originally posted by Belgian Blue:
As to paperweight, now Para... Don't ya think that's a little silly?

No, I don't. 2800 bucks for an awkward, oversized 9mm pistol. Paperweight is as good a use for it as being the clumsy, awkward to shoot firearm it is.

Silly is a good word. I have one of the HK branded Walther 22lr versions. It’s a hoot. Every time I slap the bolt down I have to suppress a giggle.

I also think that a braced pistol subgun in pistola calibers makes a great HD gun. Very handy, light, easy to make lots of center mass hits very quickly. Way quicker and more accurately than you can with a Glock. To each his own however.

If I end up leaving this shitty state I would end up with one probably.

Home defense? You're gonna keep a round chambered in that thing? Or are you going to leave the chamber empty and take time noisily charging it? Auto pistols are at the ready, already. This allows you to be very quiet until it's time to make noise. You're gonna sling it up so you can shoot with the sling tensioned? No charging and no slinging are two advantages pistols have over rifles, but this thing doesn't share those advantages. If you're gonna sling it and charge it, you might as well be using a rifle.

"Center mass hits"? If you can't hit center mass with a pistol at the distances involved inside a house, you don't need this big paperweight. What you need is practice and better shooting skills.

How about night sights? Where does your WML mount on that thing?

One of the great things about a pistol in an HD situation is one-handed operation (and no sling needed). How does this paperweight balance with one-handed shooting, with thirty rounds sitting well in front of the grip? They didn't put a forend on this paperweight just for looks. It's intended to be shot using both hands. You got a third hand for your cellphone, or to use to turn door knobs? With a pistol- that's a real pistol- not a neutered semi-auto version of a submachine gun masquerading as a pistol- your other hand can be used for these things.

If you guys want to play, then, go ahead and play, but don't expect others to believe that this thing is superior- or even equal- in a home defense situation to a quality, high-capacity pistol with night sights and an attached WML.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Or are you going to leave the chamber empty and take time noisily charging it?

Come on. think of the "speech" thread we could have!?

"And this is how we say goodbye in Germany, Dr. Jones!"

But, if you want to be Carl Weathers cool, you need two.



With braces and straps, they can be shot dual handed, single handed or even off handed.

Carl Weathers, cool.

There's no propmaster in your house.

Look, if you have Rolex tastes and a Rolex budget, get you a Rolex. Don't try to tell those of us that wanna wear a watch that we need a Rolex or that it's even a good idea.

MP5's have a cool factor. I put a few magazines through my friend's SBR'ed version (in I believe A2 config) a few years ago. It was amusing. It was like shooting a dinky version of my HK91. Same heavy trigger pull, and a little pop. He likes it, that's cool. If you like it, hey, that's cool. But if you don't have the itch, you surely don't have the need. And at almost $3k? I dunno, there's other toys I think I'd rather have. I surely wouldn't even consider it for home defense, that's not what toys are for. I'd rather lose a $500 AR or shotgun to a police locker if, God forbid, I ever have to use a long gun for what it's intended for, but that's me.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Or are you going to leave the chamber empty and take time noisily charging it?

Come on. think of the "speech" thread we could have!?

"Und zis is how ve say goodbye in Chermany, Dr. Jones!"

I'm sorry, I had to.

Or, with the same accent, "Your hands! [/throws bolt] Up!"

Para we live in a world that has import restrictions, and those restrictions have to be addressed by products like the SP5. Whose gonna do it you, you SIGForum Members? HK collectors have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for PCCs, and you curse the H&K SP5. You have that luxury, you have the luxury of not knowing what H&K know, that neutered submachine guns, without proper rifle stocks, while tragic and not in their originally intended configuration, probably save lives when accessorized properly.

And the SP5’s existence while grotesque and incomprehensible, to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about on the forum; you want to HK slap something, you need to HK slap something! We use terms like magazine capacity, muzzle velocity, terminal wound performance, We use these terms as the backbone of a life spent defending (or collecting) something, you use them as a punch line.

H&K has neither the time, nor the inclination, to explain themselves to a man, who rises and sleeps under the very consumer product line that they provide, and then questions the civilian market configuration in which they provide it. They'd rather you just say ‘I’ll take it' and ‘put it on my charge card.’ Otherwise, H&K would likely suggest you pick up another weapon of their design, and buy it instead. Either way, they don't give a damn, what anyone thinks of their civilianized military styled firearms.

quote:

Originally posted by Belgian Blue:
Para we live in a world that has import restrictions, and those restrictions have to be addressed by products like the SP5. Whose gonna do it you, you SIGForum Members? HK collectors have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for PCCs, and you curse the H&K SP5. You have that luxury, you have the luxury of not knowing what H&K know, that neutered submachine guns, without proper rifle stocks, while tragic and not in their originally intended configuration, probably save lives when accessorized properly.

What in the fuck are you yammering about? HK collectors have what? "Greater responsibility"?? Who weeps for what?? Your precious paperweight does what?? Just relax. You're babbling. Damn. Here's a tissue.

I'm sorry if logic offends you.

quote:

H&K has neither the time, nor the inclination, to explain themselves to a man, who rises and sleeps under the very consumer product line that they provide, and then questions the civilian market configuration in which they provide it.

Did you just finish watching A Few Good Men? "Rises and sleeps" under their what??

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Belgian Blue:
Para we live in a world that has import restrictions, and those restrictions have to be addressed by products like the SP5. Whose gonna do it you, you SIGForum Members? HK collectors have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for PCCs, and you curse the H&K SP5. You have that luxury, you have the luxury of not knowing what H&K know, that neutered submachine guns, without proper rifle stocks, while tragic and not in their originally intended configuration, probably save lives when accessorized properly.

What in the fuck are you yammering about? HK collectors have what? "Greater responsibility"?? Who weeps for what?? Your precious paperweight does what?? Just relax. You're babbling. Damn. Here's a tissue.

I'm sorry if logic offends you.

A few good men.. Col. Nathan R. Jessup quote tweaked a little hoping to be amusing. Just being 'silly'

But seriously, all kidding aside Para... If you take a closer look at that SP5... No forward cocking serrations. Heh?