officerdave thanks for the follow-up and also for sharing the initial incident...it's always better to prevent an issue from happening but once it does occur then at least we can use it as a lesson and hopefully avoid someone else getting hurt. We can all use an occasional reminder, lest we get complacent. Glad you are ok.

By the way, where did the bullet end up? Hopefully not too much damage to whatever it hit.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I find myself riding the back of the slide into the holster with my thumb on the P320. There's no valid reason for that, except habit from autos with hammers. I expect a negligent discharge would probably break my thumb.

Rogue is correct... Absolutely untrue. Think about it objectively, as a physics problem; does the force of the gun recoiling into your hand (albeit with some transfer of energy with the lever effect) feel like enough force to break your thumb?

Thanks for the follow up. If I ever do anything stupid and that’s a BIG IF I will remember your candor.

Which translates to CSLINGER DOES LOTS OF STUPID SHIT ALL THE TIME MAYBE HE SHOULD TRY TO AT LEAST TEACH OTHERS THROUGH ALL HIS BAD EXAMPLES.

Seriously. Thanks for the update and you may very well save somebody’s life with this simple thread.

officerdave,

Did Sig have any comment on your observation that you could press on the side of the trigger with your finger and cause the striker to be released? That was the most concerning aspect of this whole thread to many here. Thanks.

Chris

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:


Rogue is correct... Absolutely untrue. Think about it objectively, as a physics problem; does the force of the gun recoiling into your hand (albeit with some transfer of energy with the lever effect) feel like enough force to break your thumb?

I don't know. I've seen it slice open shooters hands enough to require multiple stitiches. I've seen slide action blacken eyes and cause some real bruising. Placing the thumb on the back of the slide on a striker fired pistol accomplishes absolutely nothing, nada, zilch, zippo, unless the pistol contains something like the striker control device (aka "Glock Gadget"), which chase the user has direct control over the striker and thus trigger.

In theory riding the back of the slide with the thumb *might* prevent a second negligent discharge if one were to jerk the pistol back into the holster a second time with the same cause still in effect.

My continued riding the slide with my thumb when reholstering is simply old habit, without value in a striker fired pistol, and the only potential outcome is injury without benefit, which makes it a bad habit. The only argument that I can think of, in favor, is consistency of practice when firing something other than a striker fired device, and on my carry Glocks, I do have the "gadget" and do ride those slides with purpose.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
My continued riding the slide with my thumb when reholstering is simply old habit, without value in a striker fired pistol, and the only potential outcome is injury without benefit, which makes it a bad habit. The only argument that I can think of, in favor, is consistency of practice when firing something other than a striker fired device, and on my carry Glocks, I do have the "gadget" and do ride those slides with purpose.

Holding your thumb on the back of the slide on a striker-fired pistol prevents the possibility of it coming out of battery while holstering. A very good benefit. I guess it all comes down to how firmly you hold your thumb against it. Very light pressure may allow the slide to move during an ND, IDK.

Thank you for the update. No one likes to air the circumstances of an incident like this (at least I don’t), but we all benefit when someone does.

pushing your thumb against the back of the slide will keep the pistol in battery as mentioned above. On tight holsters, especially new leather holsters, it may be tight enough to push the slide back and cause a jam without you ever knowing.

As for "breaking thumbs", its the same as "the recoil from a 44 magnum will throw you back on your ass if you're not really braced for it"... its a bunch of bull.

Seriously, go the range and try it some time. Push your thumb firmly against the back of the slide (easy to do on something like a glock) and fire off a round. You will be surprised at how little force is pushed against your thumb.
People get multiple stiches and bleed from slide bite because the sharp edges of the back of the rails is what slices your web open, not the force of the recoil moving the slide.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:


Holding your thumb on the back of the slide on a striker-fired pistol prevents the possibility of it coming out of battery while holstering. A very good benefit. I guess it all comes down to how firmly you hold your thumb against it. Very light pressure may allow the slide to move during an ND, IDK.

If your slide is forced aft and the pistol out of battery during reholstering, then by design the weapon is prevented from firing. If it's caught on something and you do hold it in battery, you increase the chance of a discharge.

If the holster is so tight that the pistol can't be reholstered without pressing the slide down, then it's probably the wrong holster for that pistol.

Wrong holster for the pistol increases the possibility of a negligent discharge.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:


Rogue is correct... Absolutely untrue. Think about it objectively, as a physics problem; does the force of the gun recoiling into your hand (albeit with some transfer of energy with the lever effect) feel like enough force to break your thumb?

I don't know. I've seen it slice open shooters hands enough to require multiple stitiches. I've seen slide action blacken eyes and cause some real bruising. Placing the thumb on the back of the slide on a striker fired pistol accomplishes absolutely nothing, nada, zilch, zippo, unless the pistol contains something like the striker control device (aka "Glock Gadget"), which chase the user has direct control over the striker and thus trigger.

In theory riding the back of the slide with the thumb *might* prevent a second negligent discharge if one were to jerk the pistol back into the holster a second time with the same cause still in effect.

My continued riding the slide with my thumb when reholstering is simply old habit, without value in a striker fired pistol, and the only potential outcome is injury without benefit, which makes it a bad habit. The only argument that I can think of, in favor, is consistency of practice when firing something other than a striker fired device, and on my carry Glocks, I do have the "gadget" and do ride those slides with purpose.

I do know because I have done exactly this (discharged a pistol while holding the back of the slide closed with my thumb literally dozens of times in classes to demonstrate that you will not be injured by it. I demonstrate this because I think there is merit in thumbing the rear of the slide to prevent poor reholstering from moving the pistol out of battery (not to mention the obvious benefits on a hammer fired gun). This is particularly the case with cops who are often trained not to look at their holster while reholstering (and yes, I'm aware of the debate about the applicability of that instruction). I've also done it while shooting suppressed pistols to try to isolate the amount of sound from the discharge versus the action cycling.

People who get cut by the slide are cut by a relatively sharp edge moving at a relatively high speed. This is sharp force trauma versus blunt force trauma. Somebody can cut you up pretty bad with a blade that weighs nothing. The mechanics of a black eye are also totally different. The amount of force it takes to cause a black eye is relatively small and there is really nothing I'm the eye to prevent it. The thumb is bone covered by relatively tough skin and muscle. The pinch and levering action between the thumb and the rest of the fingers, like you would do to hold the slide closed is many, many pounds greater than the force required to do so.

Give it a shot sometime. It's not a "skill" or of any use (shooting the gun while holding the slide closed), but it's not going to hurt you or the gun.

From a couple of years ago

Thanks to the original poster for the update. We're all human and make mistakes.

At least there were no conspiracy theories with this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
From a couple of years ago

Thanks, Jerry.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:
officerdave,

Did Sig have any comment on your observation that you could press on the side of the trigger with your finger and cause the striker to be released? That was the most concerning aspect of this whole thread to many here. Thanks.

Chris

nope as suspected they simply said the Smith says the gun is correct. I would suspect I was mistaken. No worries

quote:

Originally posted by NYresq:
pushing your thumb against the back of the slide will keep the pistol in battery as mentioned above. On tight holsters, especially new leather holsters, it may be tight enough to push the slide back and cause a jam without you ever knowing.

As for "breaking thumbs", its the same as "the recoil from a 44 magnum will throw you back on your ass if you're not really braced for it"... its a bunch of bull.

Seriously, go the range and try it some time. Push your thumb firmly against the back of the slide (easy to do on something like a glock) and fire off a round. You will be surprised at how little force is pushed against your thumb.
People get multiple stiches and bleed from slide bite because the sharp edges of the back of the rails is what slices your web open, not the force of the recoil moving the slide.

When the gun went off , I felt nothing on my thumb.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Thank you for the update. No one likes to air the circumstances of an incident like this (at least I don’t), but we all benefit when someone does.

thanks sir this group has been good to me over the years. I got a day off, almost took my finger off, have to do safety re-train etc. I will not forget this soon. I know what I did and will NEVER put a weapon into a holster not specifically designed for it.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:


Holding your thumb on the back of the slide on a striker-fired pistol prevents the possibility of it coming out of battery while holstering. A very good benefit. I guess it all comes down to how firmly you hold your thumb against it. Very light pressure may allow the slide to move during an ND, IDK.

If your slide is forced aft and the pistol out of battery during reholstering, then by design the weapon is prevented from firing. If it's caught on something and you do hold it in battery, you increase the chance of a discharge.

If the holster is so tight that the pistol can't be reholstered without pressing the slide down, then it's probably the wrong holster for that pistol.

Wrong holster for the pistol increases the possibility of a negligent discharge.

I just bought a new holster for the 320XC. The pistol fit fine until I placed it on a belt and started wearing it, then every time I re-holstered the gun it forced it out of battery. A well known brand from a well known online retailer. I sent it back. Now looking for a Kydex holster, not sure that I fully trust leather holsters with striker fired guns anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
From a couple of years ago

Thanks. I have seen that and your other videos. Quick question:

What is recommended when holstering an SAO Sig (or 1911)? More important to have the thumb under the thumb safety to make sure it remains engaged?

I don’t carry but at some point want to try steel challenge, etc. and might use an SAO in addition to my old DA/SA 226.

quote:

Originally posted by FHHM213:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
From a couple of years ago

Thanks. I have seen that and your other videos. Quick question:

What is recommended when holstering an SAO Sig (or 1911)? More important to have the thumb under the thumb safety to make sure it remains engaged?

I don’t carry but at some point want to try steel challenge, etc. and might use an SAO in addition to my old DA/SA 226.

I'm not Jerry, but for consistency (and I duty-carried a 1911 for several years and off-duty carried one for a few more), I held my thumb on the rear of the slide offset to the right. I see the argument for holding the safety up, but with some holsters, I found that technique to end up with the thumb getting pinched between holster and gun.

quote:

Originally posted by FHHM213:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
From a couple of years ago

Thanks. I have seen that and your other videos. Quick question:

What is recommended when holstering an SAO Sig (or 1911)? More important to have the thumb under the thumb safety to make sure it remains engaged?

I don’t carry but at some point want to try steel challenge, etc. and might use an SAO in addition to my old DA/SA 226.

We were always taught to holster our DA/SA Sigs with the thumb on the back of the slide to ensure the pistol was decocked. I continued when we transitioned to Glocks. If you watch people on the firing line you'll see that placing the thumb on the back of the slide has the added benefit of rotating the trigger finger higher up on the slide. With the thumb on the back of the slide the trigger finger is uncomfortable in or near the trigger guard.