So I zeroed my guns at 10 yards. Theoretically, this is the near zero and the far zero is around 50 to 60 yards out. Anything in between and the bullet is above the line of sight.

Halfway through my only second round of steel plates, I realized (through verbal feedback) I’ve been shooting low. It’s not like I’m speeding through the string, I take my time and aim. I range the distances and it’s all between 14 yards and 20 yards. But when I start aiming at the top of the plate and even above the plates for those 27 yards out, I make one shot hits.

I asked Grok and while it gave me answers, I’m not understanding it. It says something like past 10 yards, the barrel isn’t tilted up enough so have to put the dot over the target point. But in my head, I’m stuck with “the bullet should be above the line of sight so it should be hitting high, not low, within the shooting range.

I’m assuming there’s nothing else wrong and I am pressing the trigger correctly while the dot is where I’m aiming.

I have the same thing happen when I shoot steel on the timer. In my case, I’m smashing the trigger under stress and pushing low. First 3 or 4 shots go well, then my grip loosens up just a little once I get into the rhythm.

if you're spot on at 10 yards, i'd very much expect your bullets to strike a little higher at 14 yards, and only a little - specifically, about 40% of the distance from your bore to your sightline. if, for example, your sightline is 2 inches high, you might be hitting almost an inch higher

i can't explain why you're hitting low

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:

I asked Grok

There's your first problem

quote:

Originally posted by 1KPerDay:

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:

I asked Grok

There's your first problem

Grok isn’t making me hit lower than where my red dot is pointing at so Grok can’t be the problem. Do you have any actual knowledge or experience to give me insight to the problem I outlined?

quote:

Originally posted by mike_jackmin:
if you're spot on at 10 yards, i'd very much expect your bullets to strike a little higher at 14 yards, and only a little - specifically, about 40% of the distance from your bore to your sightline. if, for example, your sightline is 2 inches high, you might be hitting almost an inch higher

i can't explain why you're hitting low

Actually, you’ve been very helpful with your post. You agree with my expectation that I should, at least, be hitting higher, not lower.

And you gave me an idea: I’ll confirm zero at 10 yards supported. Then I’ll move the target out to 15 yards and 20 yards and see where it hits still supported. That will take out the variables of the match and confirm the expectation that my hits should be higher.

I’ll also shoot not level but at an angle down to the target since my line of sight isn’t parallel to the ground as when I’m zeroing.

It's probably you experiencing pre-ignition anticipation or some other shooter error. Unless your zero is wrong.

Yes, with a 10 yard zero POI will be higher than POA for about 20-30 yards, but it won't be that much...likely less than half an inch max assuming you don't have some giant sight-to-bore offset. What sight are you using and if it's a red dot, what mounting solution? How high does it sit above the bore?

I typically zero all of my 9mm handguns at 15 yards to minimize this, but 10 really shouldn't be drastically different.

You're on the right track to try shooting it off a rest. Also, shoot it on paper not steel so you can make sure you're getting a consistent group in a specific location. If that fails have a buddy who's abilities you trust shoot the gun. I can't tell you how many zeroes I've "fixed" for people by taking their gun and putting 3 or 4 rounds right into POA at 15 yards while they were consistently low left, or worse, all over the place.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

Yes, with a 10 yard zero POI will be higher than POA for about 20-30 yards, but it won't be that much...likely less than half an inch max assuming you don't have some giant sight-to-bore offset. What sight are you using and if it's a red dot, what mounting solution? How high does it sit above the bore?

I typically zero all of my 9mm handguns at 15 yards to minimize this, but 10 really shouldn't be drastically different.

You're on the right track to try shooting it off a rest. Also, shoot it on paper not steel so you can make sure you're getting a consistent group in a specific location.

Thank you for your input and confirmation. I always read your posts on similar topics because your analytical way of thinking is evident.

I’m shooting just stock P365 Fuse with the stock circle dot that came with it. I shifted to that from the P320. I really like it, thin but with a 4.3” barrel. I never was impressed with my ability to shoot but this gun makes me look decent as far as hitting the target.

Static and supported, it shoots 1” groups at 10 yards. I chose 10 yards as it’s for carry and ballistic calculation for near zero at 10 yards had a longer flatter range to the far zero.

These little guns are harder to shoot well. I've been spending a lot of time with my 43x lately and there have been several times that I've thought my dot is loose or losing zero, but ultimately determined that it's just me.

I think there's several factors at play for me...the recoil is snappier so it lends itself to pre-ignition anticipation, and the gun doesn't fill the hand as well as a full-size, so it moves around more under recoil and it's harder to keep a consistent rhythm because you have to keep making minor adjustments. I can roll through all six plates very easily with my P320 at 25 yards, but the 43x takes a lot more deliberate concentration.

Another thing that often gets me is that sixth (last) plate. I've got a clean run going, I get excited about it, and my mental discipline goes straight to hell and I let my technique slip on that sixth shot and miss.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
It's probably you experiencing pre-ignition anticipation or some other shooter error. Unless your zero is wrong.

Agreed.

quote:

I can't tell you how many zeroes I've "fixed" for people by taking their gun and putting 3 or 4 rounds right into POA at 15 yards while they were consistently low left, or worse, all over the place.

That was a frequent occurrence as a firearms instructor at both my LE agency and especially at the police academy...

Them: "I need to adjust my sights"/"My gun's not shooting right"/"This ammo is crap for accuracy"/etc.

I take the gun, and shoot 3 rounds dead center.

Me: "Well, it ain't the gun... Now let's see if we can figure out what you're doing to cause that."

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:
Static and supported, it shoots 1” groups at 10 yards.

Static supported shots remove most of the opportunities for user input error.

So you're introducing some sort of shooter error that's causing your shots to go low when you're not static and supported.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Me: "Well, it ain't the gun... Now let's see if we can figure out what you're doing to cause that."

That’s it.

Such a demonstration at 15 yards was part of the reason why I was asked to take over firearms instruction for my agency 20+ years ago, and there have been countless repeats since, most recently a month ago.

In all cases where I am zeroing a fun, I shoot it on paper at the distances that I might use it for. This usually gives me the answer for proper or usable zero.

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:
Static and supported, it shoots 1” groups at 10 yards.

When I am working up loads I shoot off a rest and find POI from a rest is different than when off hand. The pistol recoils differently in each case and recoil begins before the bullet leaves the muzzle.