quote:

Originally posted by Steve 22X:
They claim to have offered a tabbed trigger at least as far back as June of 2014.

"With a partially pretensioned striker, the P320 has a short, crisp trigger pull with a quick, pronounced reset right out-of-the-box. The P320 comes in two trigger variants: a standard trigger and a tabbed safety trigger for specific law enforcement clients. "

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"The internet remembers"

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
How do we know that a tabbed trigger will prevent a discharge if the P320 is dropped? The tabbed triggers I am familiar with only prevent the trigger from moving through inertia if the gun is dropped. Do we know that that is what causes the P320 to discharge if dropped in a certain way—i.e., trigger movement?

The video I watched cleary showed the trigger move toward the ground at the time of impact.

Just below your post there is a gif of the gun hitting the ground and you can see the trigger move. I assume that clip was taken from the orig video..

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Just don't drop it when loaded.

True of many firearms, and the 320 is no different.

It can be improved. Many can. At what cost to function, should they idiot-proof?

Sorry this is a cop-out. Speaking of Cops, one was already shot by a holstered P320 that hit the ground.

Drop-proofing and Idiot proofing are two very different things. This is a FUNDAMENTAL requirement of any modern pistol.

I'd challenge you to point out a single pistol designed in the last 20 years that has had this issue where ...it wasn't corrected by the manufacturer. I really hope you are joking with the "don't drop it while loaded"

Heck even series 70 1911s have had TI firing pins issued etc to help to correct. But the series 70 is definitely an ancient design.

I'm no engineer but it does seem like a tabbed trigger would be a logical fix. I'm sure Sig really wanted to develop a striker without a tabbed trigger--maybe it is just too hard. I am content and wait on the sidelines for the most part and await what Sig has to say about all this. They don't have to look back too far to find their SOP on recalls--only December of last year for the MCX bolt carrier. So we'll see. I'm pretty patient.

quote:

Originally posted by evolution:

quote:

Originally posted by pbramlett:
Why should APEX replace apex triggers for free? I would not expect or require them to do so. I bought one for my 320, if they come up with a tabbed trigger or solution to this problem i'll pay them for it.

If Sig offers a solution free of charge then i'll take them up on it but it is ridiculous to expect another vendor to do so.

Because their trigger allows the gun to bang when dropped. Too be clear I love Apex products, I'm not angry; I simply feel that is the safe and right thing to do.

Actually, the APEX trigger has less mass than the factory trigger. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the P320 will not fire when dropped with an APEX trigger in it. Much like it didn't fire with the X5's flat trigger in it during the video.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
So you have no comment on the SIG literature (drop safe without a tabbed trigger) and what appears to be happening.

Because modern service weapons never get dropped, thrown, or otherwise abused - or when they do it's just 'idiots'.

And no, the 1911 is not a modern service weapon.


Mmmkay.

All your words. You're doing enough commentary for everyone.

Do I have comments about Sig literature? Maybe, but it's hard to get worked up to the fevered panic level that some of you display. It's my superpower: I don't much care.

The 1911 does continue to be a big seller, and yes, continues in service. Perhaps you're unaware. At no time did I say weapons do not get dropped, thrown, or abused. Stupidity, however, often hurts. Throwing a handgun most often falls into the realm of stupidity. Only you stated that only idiots drop firearms. I surely did not.

quote:

Originally posted by lordhamster:
Heck even series 70 1911s have had TI firing pins issued etc to help to correct. But the series 70 is definitely an ancient design.

70 series 1911's continue in production and are often preferred by those who are serious about their 1911. Titanium firing pins dont prevent the design from discharging if dropped, and do offer other problems, but some do use them.

No doubt Sig will move to address this after a period of denial. In the meanwhile, the sky is not falling. One should consider that any firearm could discharge if dropped. Consistent repeatability calls for attention, as is the case here, but not panic. Anyone who thinks that dropping a chambered firearm is a safe act is...an idiot.

The m&p and glock have linear trigger bar actions that release the sear in one direction. The SIG moves the trigger bar in the opposite direction, therefore, giving the parts that move in. The opposite direction more mass than the trigger should resolve the issue.

But.....will that make it more susceptible to discards from a muzzle first drop?

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Anyone who thinks that dropping a chambered firearm is a safe act is...an idiot.

Nobody intentionally drops a chambered firearm, but it DOES HAPPEN. Expecting a pistol that is specifically marketed as being drop safe like the P320(look it up) .... should not result in accidental discharges.

I don't much care either, but its amusing to see the apologists out in force.

Yes, no one should count on a drop safety as a matter of course and throw their weapon around.

But to say your weapon is 'drop safe' (SIGs words), yet it can be made to fire when dropped not once, not occasionally but with boring regularity, is either ignorance or deception.

Oh yes, I know the 19elebeen sees fierce service all over the world, usually riding to the range in careful baggies and such. It was so great even the Marines gave up their brand new ones after a couple of years. I'm sure it's because it exceeded expectations...

quote:

odd seeing that video up close and seeing the trigger move that much.

And seeing the slide not move at all!

quote:

Originally posted by Anush:

quote:

odd seeing that video up close and seeing the trigger move that much.

And seeing the slide not move at all!

Everyone with a brain that is doing this testing is pulling the bullets from the casings for the purpose of the test, so all you're seeing/hearing is primer ignition.

Apex could make a quick buck by releasing a trigger/shoe with a safety blade.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Apex could make a quick buck by releasing a trigger/shoe with a safety blade.

They might be worried about liability with their current P320 trigger products.

How long will it be before some moron wanting to get on YouTube drop tests with a live loaded round. Odds are there will be one. Boy oh boy.

I haven't been paying too much attention to this issue but hasn't it been proven that all the vids demonstrating discharge are using modified pistols to make it happen?

quote:

Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
I haven't been paying too much attention to this issue but hasn't it been proven that all the vids demonstrating discharge are using modified pistols to make it happen?

No. It happens with stock Sigs.

quote:

Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
I haven't been paying too much attention to this issue but hasn't it been proven that all the vids demonstrating discharge are using modified pistols to make it happen?

It's real, and a bit disturbing to watch.

The guy hitting the P320 with a hammer and no trigger movement shows theres more at work than just the weight of the trigger.

So without referring me to read 38 pages of the issue, what's the fix?

ETA: So both SIG and Bruce Gray and his team missed this in development and subsequent testing? Really?

SIG is realeasing the details Monday. From what I gather it will be a voluntary upgrade program at no cost that will replace several parts in the slide and trigger group. Apparently the military M17s already have these.