This may be helpful

https://youtu.be/3XdyPQ3nCbc

https://youtu.be/WItKIPHuod4

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:


The need for unsighted shooting at close distances is something I did discover independently and decided was important despite the “front sight, front sight, front sight” mantra that I’d been exposed to for years. I even remember reading a comment here on the forum that no competitor was ever successful by using “point” shooting.

So I've heard it labeled kinesthetic shooting for unsighted fire. Likely to avoid the whole no sights freakout. Its not for fine accuracy over distance but up close the issue we have is actually people trying to use their sights and put two rounds on top of each other instead of getting in the gunfight. Its interesting, I recently was reading one of our shoots from years ago, bad guy got the drop on our guy and tried to walk him to a ditch to execute him. He got his light into bad guys eyes and used unsighted from the hip fire to win the fight and get himself home. This doesn't mean there is no point in accuracy but at bad breath distance sighting can cost you.

OP, the ears on the RMR are what many people use or canting it and using the top corner as a rough aiming reference. I've been successful with it out about 15 yds.

I'm not averse to kinesthetic or instinctive techniques. Leverage it heavily for recurve shooting.

I'm actually fairly confidence I could make hits without sights to a reasonable distance (A/B zone type hits, not 2" group). I want to buy a blank slide (no sights) so that I can test out more - see what my limits are.

I'm trying to still understand some of the technique suggestions written above. And I want to try out the use of the RMR ears as well as the RMR window techniques.

My biggest question is not so much how to use these techniques for lateral alignment but how to be more deterministic on vertical alignment.

For example: bad guy is standing behind a truck that comes up to his chest. I think I can get the round w/in his shoulders but want to hit his upper chest and not the truck or above his head. It's the deterministic elevation that is puzzling me.

The answer may be - don't; always just fall back to irons.

How about this-

Take your pistol out, go to about 10 yards, and shoot a group using the ears as a reference point. Take the ears, place them evenly at the tops of the “shoulders” on the target, and practice great trigger control for about 5 rounds.

Mark the group.

Back out to 12. Repeat. Back out to 15. Repeat. Back out to 18. Repeat.

This will do more for you to gather information about how well this works/doesn’t work for you.

Note- this will show you what your mechanical offset is (height over bore) of using the ears and shoulders as a reference point in aiming. It will slightly decrease the further back you go.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
How about this-

Take your pistol out, go to about 10 yards, and shoot a group using the ears as a reference point. Take the ears, place them evenly at the tops of the “shoulders” on the target, and practice great trigger control for about 5 rounds.

Mark the group.

Back out to 12. Repeat. Back out to 15. Repeat. Back out to 18. Repeat.

This will do more for you to gather information about how well this works/doesn’t work for you.

Note- this will show you what your mechanical offset is (height over bore) of using the ears and shoulders as a reference point in aiming. It will slightly decrease the further back you go.

Great suggestion and some of these sights like the Vortex Venom pictured below have a backup rear sight painted on the back of the optic that you can practice with if there's sufficient light.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Blackmore,

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
You might look at ancient "point shooting" techniques as taught by Fairbairn or Applegate back in the dark ages.
And dry fire with a laser can help you to get quick hits with "unsighted" fire by reinforcing proper gun presentation and muscle memory. The old point shooting techniques as taught by the ancients can be very effective. Especially at closer ranges. And should serve well in the case of an optic failure.

There is no such thing as effective “unsighted fire.”

The Applegste / fairburn techniques you reference involve bringing the gun to eye level. They do work but they are, essentially a form of gross aiming similar to the Jim Cirillo method using the rear silhouette of the pistol posted earlier in the thread.

Inside 7 yards RMR users can perform gross aiming with the rear of the slide as described above; gross aiming using the window of the optic I.e. fill the glass; third option is the “guillotine” method using the top body of the optic. The white line method and the use of the RMR ears are simply variations of the Guillotine.