Hi all
We are purchasing a mountain home and I’ve started thinking about a good defense option against bad men and, however rare it may be, a bad bear. We only have black bears in our area, no grizzly thank goodness. Most of the time I’ll be around, but there is a chance I’ll be back in town working while my wife is at the cabin with my three kids. I have a 870 12ga I can dedicate to the cabin so my thoughts are low recoil slugs. What do you guys think? If slugs are a good idea, which ones would be the best for my needs?
Thanks in advance

Brenneke slugs are usually very accurate

a 'low recoil' HD version here:

https://www.midwayusa.com/prod...002074185?pid=993382

make sure you get some practice with these

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“What do I think?”

If I were concerned about bears, I’d pick a full charge slug load. The only ways to reduce actual recoil is to reduce projectile mass and/or velocity. In reduced recoil 12 gauge loads marketed for law enforcement use, the most common way is to reduce velocity, but 00 buckshot loads with only eight rather than the traditional nine pellets reduce projectile mass as do lower weight slugs. Such low recoil loads may be fine for use against human targets because they are still very powerful loads, but for a big wild animal I’d prefer all the power I could get. The only way to be certain of stopping an aggressive animal like a bear is to cause as much damage as possible, and not all “shot placement” is going to be perfect.

Most shotgun training can be conducted with low power loads, even birdshot, but of course the shooter should be at least introduced to the high power stuff so it’s not a complete shock when used for real. That could conceivably be a problem in a defensive situation if they are terrified of shooting the gun, but if they’re confident with shooting lower power loads they may do fine with the first and most important shot. I would use lower power loads only if I knew that the shooter would be absolutely unable to manage higher power. Keep in mind, though, that “low” recoil isn’t no recoil, and some people wouldn’t do well with any decent shotgun load. On the other hand, there are ways of reducing the felt recoil of a shotgun, so they might also be considered.

Some type of high quality butt pad might help.

Thanks

I'm unfamiliar with 12GA slugs. But would a 20GA full power slug. Be better than a low power 12GA slug?

quote:

Originally posted by myrottiety:
I'm unfamiliar with 12GA slugs. But would a 20GA full power slug. Be better than a low power 12GA slug?

I'm sure there are charts out there ...

But in my experience that answer is -- not really.

20 GA shotguns tend to be lighter than 12 ga shotguns.

That makes the 'felt recoil' differential negligible.

I have a 20ga Weatherby pump I fire standard 20ga slugs through occasionally and am pretty surprised how much thump they have. Thought it would be quite a bit less.

YMMV.

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quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
“What do I think?”

If I were concerned about bears, I’d pick a full charge slug load. The only ways to reduce actual recoil is to reduce projectile mass and/or velocity. In reduced recoil 12 gauge loads marketed for law enforcement use, the most common way is to reduce velocity, but 00 buckshot loads with only eight rather than the traditional nine pellets reduce projectile mass as do lower weight slugs. Such low recoil loads may be fine for use against human targets because they are still very powerful loads, but for a big wild animal I’d prefer all the power I could get. The only way to be certain of stopping an aggressive animal like a bear is to cause as much damage as possible, and not all “shot placement” is going to be perfect.

Most shotgun training can be conducted with low power loads, even birdshot, but of course the shooter should be at least introduced to the high power stuff so it’s not a complete shock when used for real. That could conceivably be a problem in a defensive situation if they are terrified of shooting the gun, but if they’re confident with shooting lower power loads they may do fine with the first and most important shot. I would use lower power loads only if I knew that the shooter would be absolutely unable to manage higher power. Keep in mind, though, that “low” recoil isn’t no recoil, and some people wouldn’t do well with any decent shotgun load. On the other hand, there are ways of reducing the felt recoil of a shotgun, so they might also be considered.

This is the information you are looking for.

I'd add by saying practice will reduce the felt recoil. I wasn't sure about this when an old timer told me this, but doing long range shooting with a 30-06 for 6 weeks made the recoil (or felt recoil) significantly less. Day 1 I shot 3 rounds before I felt like I had a concussion but by day 6 I was shooting 40 rounds, and my accuracy improved (in part because of the flinch was removed, and in part because the was more experienced).

IF you are worried about bear - train with full power fosters. IF you are worries about humans, train with 9 pellet buckshot. IF you are worried about both, stack your loads buck/foster/buck.

My wife used to think a 223 bolt gun had kick - now she shoots 260 Rem with a 130 grain bullet. Practice will help.

Having the shooter put all the weight on the front leg and letting the human body recoil with the gun reduces felt recoil.

I’d let her train with reduced recoil slugs and use full power for home.

Practice with low recoil. Throw one or two full power in at the end for training. She will get used to it and handle it just fine.

Full power slugs with either a SAGE or Mesa Tactical pistol grip/buffer tube adapter. Install a Kynshot hydraulic recoil buffer and a collapsible AR-stock.

I tested this with the most powerful 3" mag slugs and buckshot I could find and it reduced the recoil to that of 2-3/4" target load. Just keep your cheek off the stock. Let your head over over it and you'll be fine.



This is now my home defense setup.

Tony.

If she absolutely can't handle a full power slug, then a low recoil slug is better than hitting the bear with a stick. But try her with a full-powered 2 3/4" slug. They aren't too hard-kicking, and in the midst of a bear attack you won't notice.

No need to try her on a 3" magnum slug. (I think Federal even lists a 3 1/2" slug load.) I bought some by accident one time, and shot them in a Winchester pump I have. It is light, and is, of course, fixed breech. They kicked more than any other gun I have ever shot, including some biggish magnum rifles. I'd rather be eaten than shoot one of those again.

I think you should tell us what configuration 870 you have before we start making suggestions. I think you should have your wife shoot some bird loads in the 870 to see how she handles it in general forgetting the recoil. I think my lever action rifle in 35 Remington is easier to handle than my 590A1 with a 20" barrel loaded with 9 slugs.

I'm 5'3 and am not fond of recoil. One of the things that helps me a lot is to shorten the stock . It should be just a hair on the short side for your wife ( you don't count ) also install a very nice quality , thick butt pad.
Start her on target ( low brass) loads with birdshot. Only after she is comfortable with the shot shells would I introduce her to any of the lower recoil slugs. It always seems to me that buck shot recoils worse than slugs , so I'm not sure that I would even expose her to that.
If your 870 doesn't have an extended magazine tube, I would get one. Mainly to put more weight at the end of the barrel. Good luck ! mike

PS: have you given any thought to a lever action in 357,44 mag or even 30-30 ? They are quite handy and seem less intimidating. IMO....a good hit with a heavy bullet 357 is better than a miss or peripheral hit with a 12 gauge. They are very handy and every woman has seen then in the western movies, not as intimidating. My wife ( 4'10") would much prefer shooting my Marlin 45-70 . She has no interest in my 870 , no matter the load..."I just don't like it".

I've put thousands of slugs through my 870 with a Knoxx Spec Ops recoil reducing adjustable stock. I recommend to all the officers and deputies I train, and so far, everyone has much preferred my shotgun with that stock than the standard stocks that come through.

It does a wonderful job of reducing felt recoil and you can also put a soft rubber pad on it as well.

I had an 870 with a Knoxx recoil reducing stock and used Remington Slugger low recoil slugs in it at the range and it was quite manageable.

Any chance of dedicating an autoloader shotgun to the project instead of a pump action?

The automatic mechanics absorb some of the recoil to use in cycling the action, and that can make them softer feeling.

My favorite is the Sellier & Bellot Special Slug Sport. EXTREMELY accurate. Moderate recoil. 1 oz. slug at 1350 fps. Designed so that the wad stays attached to the slug like a Brenneke. I wouldn't hesitate to use this on any bear up to and including a grizzly....

https://www.sellierbellot.us/p...n-shells/detail/581/

Knoxx Spec Ops stock.

The posters that mentioned it KNOW.

It also allows for adjustment of the LOP which is critical for optimum handling by those with smaller frames.

I have trained dozens of females throughout the age range using one and they all didn't even realize they were shooting a firearm many men cannot handle well.

As mentioned, teach them to lean forward 'into it' and show how it reduces felt recoil and offers better control. Watch them smile when they learn this.

Low brass bird shot aimed at clay pigeons set out in staggered patterns up to about 50 feet is used to get them to know how to aim. I tell them, "Shoot two." Then, "Shoot three." Let them pick the targets and get confident about actioning the shotgun and aiming it. Loading additional shells. Using the safety. Remembering to take it off.

Switch to low recoil buckshot and continue.

Switch to full power buckshot and continue.

Switch to slugs of each. Explain the difference insomuch as it is a single projectile that offers better penetration.

Have a few cardboard boxes with targets taped to them. Place them at different ranges to show them shot patterns of each type of round.

Give them a single 3" buckshot load, telling them this is likely the most powerful shell they'll ever fire in most 12 gauges - and they will handle it near effortlessly.

Teach them to unload it. Then load it again. Then have them move, advancing into the pigeons, racking and shooting targets at will.

Ask them which loads they liked the best. None of them will mention bird shot. It will be buckshot, standard or low recoil. Explain to them the more powerful the shell, the more effective it is on the target. Inevitably, they pick standard buckshot and I let them shoot as much as they want of it. Why?

Because they will get tired of holding the darn shotgun faster than they will tire of shooting it. Because now they know they CAN.

In 50 rounds, I'll have a 5' 100lb female handling a riot pump better than 95% of the men in her subdivision.

Women are GREAT learners when you let them show you their strengths.

Before our trip to Alaska this summer I bought a 12 gauge pump shotgun for the express purpose of protection against bears, specifically grizzlies.

I wanted my wife to be able to shoot it in case I was unable but at the same time I felt that shooting an underpowered round could potentially be disastrous so I ended up buying these Brenneke slugs..

https://www.brennekeusa.com/hu...black-magicr-magnum/

When I took my wife out to my shop I started with some birdshot and eventually got her up to the above. She thought that her shoulder might be sore the next day but that didn’t happen. She felt confident enough to use it if need be.

If you’re not worried about grizzlies perhaps you can go down a notch or two from what we carried but the important point is to have her practice and be comfortable enough to use it if the need arises.