Hivemind,

Another odd/curio question.

I see a lot of stuff on YouTube about the 5.7x28 out of the FiveseveN pistol and what many people feel is a lack of acceptable terminal performance.

I am aware of DocGKR's posts and feelings on the 5.7 and 4.6 (albeit a lot of the worst commentary was about the 4.6, which I don't think I'll ever have the opportunity to place in my personal stockpile).

Does anyone have resources that discuss - WITH DATA - terminal performance of the various 5.7x28mm loads, to include some of the boutique stuff coming down the pike from third party manufacturers, from the standard (SBR) 10.4" barreled P90 PDW?

For the purposes of this discussion I'm not interested in the civilian 16" PS90 barrel. My dad has a 16" PS90 and it's a lot of fun, but IMHO the extra half a foot of barrel hanging off the front takes away a lot of the compactness of the gun (and ruins the lines but that's a quibble). It could be helpful as a datapoint, but that's a lot of extra barrel and could skew the discussion.

For the same reason, I'm not looking for data on the FiveseveN pistol. That's a WAY shorter barrel than that cartridge was designed for, and the muzzle flash and blast shows it. Super fun pistol to shoot...not my first choice for defense after reviewing test data.

The round is proven and is used by the Secret Service. Additionally several SWAT and Special Ops use this round.

Go to YouTube and search the tests.

I’ve seen them all. They are informative.

It is s highly effective round.

I have a FiveSeven AMD trust it as a damn good PDW.

Look up buffman on YouTube, he has a ton of tests on all types of 5.7. As mentioned it is very effective. Anything above 2200 FPS tends to leave a larger permanent wound cavity, the tumbling etc are then secondary.

True, open source scientific data on this particular round is hard to come by. Internet anecdotes, opinions and "tests" are every where.

If you are LE, I'd recommend contacting the FBI's firearms division. There are supposedly several reports that they release to other LEs about the effectiveness of the round. Dr. Roberts has paraphrased some of them in his on line comments. You could also contact Buford Boone, formerly of the FBI Firearms Division and ask his opinion. You could also data mine DTIC if you have access, but most of the references to 5.7mm you will find there lead you back to Roberts and Boone.

There was a member here that used a 5.7mm in a defensive encounter and they reported good results (From the 57 pistol). I forgot the user name, but if you look at the older 5.7 threads you might find it.

I'd also point out the lack of large scale adoption and lack of competing designs. The small caliber, high velocity PDW concept doesn't seems to be taking off, despite it being around since the 90s or earlier. Big Army went with 9mm Pistols and 9mm SMGs in their latest acquisitions. The Army SOF Guys I've worked with in ASTAN and IRAQ were carrying Glocks and M4s. I've seen some news footage of European LE carrying 5.7s and 4.8s, but I've been stationed in Europe for the last 5 years and the only place I've seen a 5.7 or 4.8 is in the Tech museum in Koblenz and the Firearms museum on Obensdorf. I've seen a ton of old MP-5s being carried by German LE and the Belgian forces doing domestic protection in Liege were carrying SCARs. I haven't visited Britian, I'm told that elements of their LE community carry MP7s. I've also worked a number of Multination Exercises with European GPF (not SOF) and have never seen a 5.7 or 4.8 at one of them.

In my own personal opinion, the 5.7 and 4.8 are good at putting a lot of rounds in a compact package that is relatively easy to control. Almost like that was the requirement they were designed around :-P. The rounds ability to penetrate soft armor is a known commodity, but given what we've seen from the other rounds with similar construction and velocity that's hardly a surprise. AR500 has demonstrated that their level III steel will stop the 5.7 from a longer barrel P90, I 'm interested in what 5.7mm does against UHMWPE plates. LINK to AR500. I'd also point out that the penetration ability is not universal across all 5.7mm rounds.

That said, I would focus on shot placement and be prepared to use multiple rounds per target. Despite what some say, I don't think the 5.7 is the hammer of Thor.

If you want to really have fun compare the 5.7 to the Russia 5.45X18, 7H21,7H31 or 9mmX21.

I carry one every day for the last five or so years.
Love the no recoil and 20 round mag plus its very lite.
I have carried a large variety of weapons and this is my favorite.
its like shooting a 22 caliber in the recoil department with a blinding flash with the right ammo.

It's purpose in life is to penetrate kevlar from a PDW type weapon. Security forces like it for this.

According to the guys at ATK, around 2200 FPS is the threshold for getting rifle like tissue damage.

Basically the 5.7 is on the bottom end of this threshold out of a rifle. Doesnt mean it's not effective, but it's not a 556 Lite so to speak.

quote:

Originally posted by smithnsig:
It's purpose in life is to penetrate kevlar from a PDW type weapon. Security forces like it for this.

According to the guys at ATK, around 2200 FPS is the threshold for getting rifle like tissue damage.

Basically the 5.7 is on the bottom end of this threshold out of a rifle. Doesnt mean it's not effective, but it's not a 556 Lite so to speak.

Bears repeating NOT a 556 equivalent. But a fun round to shoot and has its own positives. Just get the FPS up over 2200 as noted.