Went to a Very small private gun store and the owner only had 2 semi autos in .40 When I asked why he said they take to long to sell. Everyone knows how far the 9mm has come, a few years ago I thought about switching but that was mainly so I could buy all new guns and justify it to the wife. So do yall think 40 S&W will become a round of the past? Sort of like 45 long colt. It was popular in the day but no longer a market for it, outside of cowboy guns and rifles.

Nonsense.

40 is competing with the 357 Sig which in my book is the better round.

See, there are at least four of us left.

If 9mm bullets have come a long way, it should be obvious that .40 bullets have come just as far. Certainly 9mm is less expensive and magazines hold more ammunition (unless one lives in a repressive state*), but it’s like saying that because cars travel faster than horse carriages, there’s no need to fly (yes, an exaggeration, but it’s the principle I’m referring to).

* And often the capacity thing is actually reversed in places like Colorado. I can purchase magazines for full sized P320 pistols chambered for 357 SIG or 40 S&W that hold 14 rounds. If I had a full size 9mm 320, my purchase option would be limited to 10-round magazines.

But because I’d rather be shot with a 9mm than a 40 S&W bullet, I encourage everyone to switch to 9mm pistols.

It's not just the aspect of terminal performance but also less felt recoil and higher mag capacity.

Like many here I have helped new shooters get basic training and can say the 9mm is just plain easier to gain proficiency more quickly with.

Also cost of ammunition but interestingly with such low demand many .40 cal prices are nearing the cost of 9mm now.

I have one 40cal gun and don't have any plans to get rid of it - but can't really remember the last time I shot it. I probably shoot 200+ 9mm rounds every trip to the range.

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From what I've seen and personally purchased, the same manufacturer offerings in 9mm are offered in .40s&w. If you like .40s&w it'll be around for sometime (well, at least 4 years). If you don't believe it, now's the time to stock up on whatever caliber for the next election.

I don't endorse having only one caliber of anything. The ol' adage about "not keeping your eggs in one basket" is still valid.

I think a lot of the transitioning from .40S&W to 9mm now days has a lot to do with many agencies adopting polymer striker fired pistols. Usually, the recoil impulse of the .40 is more uncomfortable with these pistols than with metal framed guns.

When it comes to FBI barrier testing, the .40S&W is still a more consistent and superior performer to the 9mm. Even Dr. Gary Roberts, probably the most trustworthy of FBI protocol testers now days has said that if he were in a position that he would be working in and around vehicles he would likely use a M&P in .40S&W.

So, the better terminal effects of the .40S&W over the 9mm is still there.....even with modern ammo. However, the priorities of the shooting world have shifted away from damage, to shootability. Which is probably a wiser choice because after all.....shot placement is always king, and it is much easier for most people to make accurate and fast follow up shots with the 9mm than the .40.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Fuego220,

quote:

Originally posted by TAllen01:
See, there are at least four of us left.

... and then there were five.

I still have a Kel-Tec P40 and Federal 155gr for that purpose.

I love my P239s in .40, and I often shoot a P6 for less expensive practice. I find the P6 in 9mm and the P239 in .40 to have very similar perceived recoil. At least my perception.

There seem to be two kinds of 9mm aficionados:

1) The Nine is fine
2) It's Nine or nothing

The latter gets a little obnoxious online. The previous is confident in their choice and ignores the other.

There are folks of both persuasions in the .40, .45 and even 10mm camps.

There is some relevant information in the caliber debates, but qw should probably get past that pretty soon, IMHO.

That energy should be best spent in the pursuit of competence. I carry .40, 9 and sometimes even .45. God forbid, I need that pistol for social work, I won't give a thought to the number stamped on the chamber.

quote:

Originally posted by cjevans:

quote:

Originally posted by TAllen01:
See, there are at least four of us left.

... and then there were five.

Make that six

I'm investing in 9mm. Have a G34 (which started me on 9mm) and, now, a Walther PPS M2 in 9mm. I went with that latter for the size and weight.

But I'll never get rid of my 1st Generation SIG P239 SAS. It was given to me as a Christmas present by my wife, which gives me two reasons to love it. The other being, the arguments in favour of the 9mm aside, I believe the .40 S&W to have superior terminal ballistics.

I also have a G22. I haven't shot it in a while. I haven't yet decided whether to keep that or sell it. It, too, has a special meaning to me: I bought it on the day President Bill Clinton signed the Brady Bill

I don't see myself ever abandoning .40 S&W.

Make that seven.

I am a 40 fanatic.
I have carried both on duty, and have no qualms with either.

My girlfriend once asked me, is it the round itself you like so much or the P229. I told her both.

What is a win for me, is that she is just as comfortable shooting the .40 as the 9mm.

I also have a P229 SAS as my only .40. While it has a tad more recoil than all my 9's I still shoot it really well. It now appears most of my pistols are 9mm or .45.

I've done some pretty extensive testing with various classic Sigs to try to get some definitive answers on which is "best" for a given application. So, what I say may not be the same conclusions with other platforms.

One test that I came up with that combines speed, accuracy, and the shooter's ability to transition between targets is the paired transition 2. You take two Federal Transition 2 targets(or other silhouette) and position them in from of the shooter at their 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock. From the 10yrd line, the shooter positions himself to face the 12 o'clock position. On the beep from the shot timer, the shooter shifts and draws from the holster to fire 2-3 shot strings at the left target, and then transitions and fires 2-3 shots at the other in under 4 seconds on the shot timer. Shootings are stressful, they take your stances off balance, and you never feel like you can get your shots into the target fast enough.

Now when it comes to scoring the target, that's when you assign points to the calibers. Realistically, if you measure the permanent cavity crush of the service calibers in ballistic get testing you can estimate that the .45acp does approximately 50% more damage than the 9mm given the diameter of expanded projectiles. Not an exact science obviously, but relevant. This makes it easy to give each caliber point values bases on their damage delivered. So, the 9mm would receive one point per shot and the .45 1.5 points per shot. Low and behold, that works out perfectly if you compare the P226 9mm and the P227 .45. The P226 9mm has a 15 round mag for 15 points, and the P227 .45 has a 10rd mag for 15 points. That was easy.

Next was how to best score the target. The Transition 2 target has a inner 4" ring, a 8" middle ring, a 11" bowling pin ring, and everything beyond that isn't important. Given the critical nature of a hit to the 4" ring, any bullet that hits that ring gets their points multiplied by 5(so 1.5x5=7.5 points for .45), the 8" ring is multiplied by 2, and anything outside that is multiplied by 1. This method ensures that accuracy is king.

Lastly, I didn't think it was fair to force a shooter to run 3-shot strings with a .45 on two targets in 4 seconds. So, I decided that each shot string should be 3 points. The 9mm needed three shots per target and the .45 needed 2 shots per target. This allowed the .45 shooter a little more time to recover their shots.

I ran this 9mm vs .45acp test for a total of 15 sessions over 5 range days. Each session involved loading up two magazines for the P226 and P227(30rds for the 9mm, and 20rds for the .45), and shooting their perspective shot strings at the paired targets until the ammunition was depleted. After 3 sessions, I stopped so that I would stay fresh.

Even with very generous advantages given to the P227 .45, I was never able to beat the scores made in each session by the P226 9mm. I even started each session with the .45 and warmed up before the test so that I was not recoil sensitive. Other things the scores indicated was which gun I could shoot better cold, and which gun I had the most stamina with. My scores with the P227 were lowest on the first session, strongest on the second session, and my score started to decline in the third session from fatigue. With the P226 9mm, my first session was the lowest(but better than the P227), spiked in the second session, and reached its peak in the third session. Basically, when shooting cold I was able to shoot the 9mm much better, and I stayed accurate much longer even after fatigue started to set in. I also had two other people run this test for me so that I could see how they faired and they also had similar scoring results.


I haven't done this exact test in a 9mm vs .40 comparison, but several years ago when I transitioned away from the P229 .40 I did a similar paired Transition 2 target test with a P228 9mm and a P229 .40. In 3-shot strings for time I estimated that I shot the P228 9mm around 23% more accurately than the P229 .40. I was a dedicated P229 .40 shooter at the time, so that was my control and the P228 9mm was the experiment.


After all was said and done, I convinced a lot of .45 and .40 shooters in my agency to move to 9mm. Their qualifications scores have much improved.

You aren't the last. I carry a 229/.40.

Nine now, including ArtieS above. Have about 4,000 pieces of brass that needs reloading. Tough problem to have...

I have 2 nines that I use for work. Issued duty gun is a 229 in .40 S&W. I also carry a 1911 in .45. All of them are great rounds and depending on what I am doing decides which one I'll carry. Hell, I even qualify every year with a 4 inch 625 in the "obsolete" .45 Colt because that particular gun pleases me more than about anything else I own.

I have a .40 Kimber Ultra Carry on me right now.

I carry a USP compact 40. in the winter. Only one round less then the nine.