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Palmetto State Armory confirmed a Tweeter making the rounds today that PSA is trying to bring over equipment and personnel from Eastern Europe to set up steel-cased ammunition production here in the U.S. They claim that they'll try to make it competitive price-wise with Eastern European imports, but I guess we'll have to wait and see how it all works out. No ETA for the ammo as yet.

Still, what they're trying to do is exactly what I wish they'd done when trying to set up AK production here in the U.S. Given the howls when Uncah Joe proposed to stop imports, I'm sure I'm not the only one with crossed fingers.

I couldn't find confirmation on PSA's website and didn't want to set up a link to Twitser, but offer the following as corroboration -

HEADS UP: YOU MAY NEED EYEBLEACH FOR THE SECOND PICTURE IN THE LINKED POST OR MAY SIMPLY PREFER TO NOT SCROLL DOWN THAT FAR

http://www.mom-at-arms.com/pos...ipment-from-e-europe
 
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Interesting.
Out of curiosity is the production that much different than production in the states that is already happening that people need to be imported as well to do the work?
Why not just hire Americans to do it?


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Posts: 22918 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have seen some Winchester 9mm with steel cartridge cases. I assume the cases are made here...?


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Posts: 8146 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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^^^ I don't believe so, but I could certainly be mistaken. I had heard that when Hornady was producing steel-cased 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 they simply bought primed cases from Russia in bulk. Then again, one would guess that getting steel bottlenecked cases to feed and function would be a different proposition than getting relatively simple steel pistol cases to do the same thing.
quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
Interesting.
Out of curiosity is the production that much different than production in the states that is already happening that people need to be imported as well to do the work?
Why not just hire Americans to do it?

To the best of my knowledge it's not being done in the U.S. At the same time, since they're bringing over the machinery to do it I'd be willing to believe that bringing in people who know all the tips'n'tricks could save a lot of time and avoid a lot of hassle.

In the back of my mind I wonder if getting the coating on the cases (absolutely necessary to prevent rust) may require some expertise as well. At some point in the past several years the Russians moved away from lacquered cases and started using a thin film of polymer, and that was initial scuttlebutt was that the new coating was increasing FTFs. A couple of the 'Bear' offerings were plated instead, but, FWIW, there have been a few gripes on the internutz that those finishes can sometimes flake off and some of the crud I've cleaned out of a rifle after shooting 'Silver Bear' in it suggests to me that there may be some truth in those reports.
 
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i'm not a personal fan of steel-cased.

that said -- ANY effort to increase availability of ammo should be applauded.

OVERALL production increases should help alleviate supply issues we have seen across the last 2 years.

i hope they are successful

we should start seeing more Remington back in retail availability also as their production capacity resumes

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Posts: 8708 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
i'm not a personal fan of steel-cased.

I don't blame you, but for fans of the old com-bloc firearms and some western firearms as well (think FALs or civilian versions of the old HK G3s) this is absolutely tremendous news. At the same time, if supplies of ammo in general go up, maybe that'll reduce some of the pressure that's been keeping the prices of brass-cased ammo up as well.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Sig209:
i'm not a personal fan of steel-cased.


PSA is the largest domestic manufacturer of AK47 style firearms. These guns were designed to shoot steel case ammo. And do just fine on it. They also now own DPMS and are selling a DPMS AK47 rifle now.

PSA is recognizing that with the stroke of a pen, any administration can ban steel case ammo imports. Which will directly affect the sales of PSA/DPMS AK firearms. If no ammo is available, no one will buy these weapons.

So PSA is getting ahead of the curve and bringing steel case ammo manufacturing to America. This is brilliant.

You probably wont see 9MM and .45ACP steel case ammo (initially or for years). This is absolutely intended to make AK47 ammo, here.

If they wanted to make brass case 9MM they could do that. This press release has nothing to do with pistol ammo.


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Posts: 6226 | Location: Floriduh | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would assume the plan is just to import everything as components from where it comes from now, and just assemble it here, sidestepping recent ammunition import reg changes?

If that's not the plan, how will it work? Powder, primers and components all need to come from somewhere and there's none here to spare.


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Posts: 19080 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I believe the intention is to import the machinery and know how so that they can make ALL the components in the USA. 100% made in America steel case AK47 ammo. As I understand it....


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Posts: 6226 | Location: Floriduh | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I can't see it. With all the ammo companies in the country, big and small, there's only four of them that make their own primers.

Same for powder, company B makes ammo with company C powder, because they're both owned by company A.

If some HUGE corporation with hundreds of millions to play with said they were going to do it, maybe. But a little company like PSA?

Whatever it turns out to be, I wish them well and hope it works out.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by cas:
I can't see it. With all the ammo companies in the country, big and small, there's only four of them that make their own primers.

Same for powder, company B makes ammo with company C powder, because they're both owned by company A.

If some HUGE corporation with hundreds of millions to play with said they were going to do it, maybe. But a little company like PSA?

Whatever it turns out to be, I wish them well and hope it works out.


I thought Palmetto State got purchased by VISTA?? Which then it would likely fit your description of what would be needed.


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I think that when those dark voices start calling our name in the back of our head we need to remind those voices who we belong to!
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Posts: 22918 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
I thought Palmetto State got purchased by VISTA??


Nope. They're owned by private equity firm JJE Capital.

You might have conflated it with the recent purchase by Palmetto's parent company of some of the bankrupt Remington/Freedom Group subsidiary companies, including DPMS, H&R, and AAC. But that was them buying some of (former) mega-gun-conglomerate Freedom Group, not Palmetto being bought out by Freedom Group.

(Vista itself bought other subsidiary portions of Freedom Group in the bankruptcy sale, including Remington Ammunition.)

JJE's portfolio of gun/ammo companies is expanding, but they're not quite yet a "huge corporation with hundreds of millions to play with".
 
Posts: 27902 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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PSA is a great supporter of our 2nd amendment as well as making quality firearms at reasonable cost. I wish them all the luck possible in their efforts making steel case ammo. Hornady did load 5.45x39 steel case ammo but the cases were imported from Russia, and some brass case 5.45x39 of which I don't know where the cases were sourced. PSA 5.45x39 for the win!!
 
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My AK47, CETME, and PA63 all run fine on steel case. I hope PSA pulls this off. I also hope for lacquered cases, not a fan of the poly coat, but that's probably just me
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Plugugly:
I also hope for lacquered cases, not a fan of the poly coat, but that's probably just me


Not just you. I've had issues with poly coated steel cases rusting in storage. Never had that issue with lacquered steel ammo.

The idea that "the lacquer will melt and gum up your rifle" is a myth. Lacquered steel cased rounds have been used by various militaries in the trillions over nigh on a century. But it gained enough traction thanks to uninformed interweb denizens repeating it ad nauseum in various forums that some of the larger steel cased ammo companies switched away from using lacquer on their steel cases anyway, just to placate their needlessly spooked customers.
 
Posts: 27902 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
^^^ I don't believe so, but I could certainly be mistaken. I had heard that when Hornady was producing steel-cased 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 they simply bought primed cases from Russia in bulk. Then again, one would guess that getting steel bottlenecked cases to feed and function would be a different proposition than getting relatively simple steel pistol cases to do the same thing.
quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
Interesting.
Out of curiosity is the production that much different than production in the states that is already happening that people need to be imported as well to do the work?
Why not just hire Americans to do it?

To the best of my knowledge it's not being done in the U.S. At the same time, since they're bringing over the machinery to do it I'd be willing to believe that bringing in people who know all the tips'n'tricks could save a lot of time and avoid a lot of hassle.

In the back of my mind I wonder if getting the coating on the cases (absolutely necessary to prevent rust) may require some expertise as well. At some point in the past several years the Russians moved away from lacquered cases and started using a thin film of polymer, and that was initial scuttlebutt was that the new coating was increasing FTFs. A couple of the 'Bear' offerings were plated instead, but, FWIW, there have been a few gripes on the internutz that those finishes can sometimes flake off and some of the crud I've cleaned out of a rifle after shooting 'Silver Bear' in it suggests to me that there may be some truth in those reports.


If you pass your road trips listening to Forgotten Weapons, a theme pops up repeatedly: folks who are otherwise competent manufacturers and engineers get into trouble trying to jump into firearms and ammunition design and manufacture, especially if they're moving into manufacturing techniques and materials outside their expertise (kinda like making steel-cased ammo in a country that primarily uses brass for their cases).

Side note: actual footage of PSA working out the kinks in their steel-cased line:

Unconventional Problem Solving


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