Hrcjon, I am still curious as to the circumstances of your bad setup.
I've had several. Here's a couple of examples. First was a three lug that wasn't right when I measured it. I thought originally it was the suppressor adapter and got that exchanged but in the end the barrel was milled improperly (this was a 9mm HK clone). Second was a barrel that I had cut from 16 to 14.5 and P&W a surefire on it. Simply wasn't right. The person who did it fixed it, but the diagnosis was the threads were not concentric. The third example was a scar 17 moving from the factory brake to the needed surefire mount with an adapter to deal with the shoulder issues. It wasn't right. In this one I just swapped parts till whatever tolerance stacking was causing it was resolved. There have been a few more, but those are good examples.
“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
I am usually OCD but so far I have gambled with mounting suppressors without checking with an alignment rod.
I have used cheap palmetto state barrels (3 of them), one Larue Stealth. All of those in 5.56.
I also have a CMMG Banshee 9mm. On all of those I have had no alignment issues, but I do mount the suppressor mounts properly with shim sets of varying thickness to time the mounts.
I have a Thunderbeast Ultra 9 coming and I will probably get an alignment rod for that.
Ironically I don't even have a rifle for the thunderbeast yet, and it's probably going to be a 6mm BR, 6 Dasher, or 6 GT, so on a 30 cal can I would have to have really bad alignment to have an issue. And that will likely be a pretty high end rifle from a good smith so I don't anticipate issues.
Posts: 14153 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 04, 2003
I have seen a direct tread suppressor (not mine) go down range as a result of not being tightened properly and personally experienced gross POI changes when my own loosened slightly. I carry a silicone kitchen hot pad in my range bag which is good enough for how I use my can.
I witnessed a Silencerco Omega go down the hallway of a shoot house because the ASR mounts had some issues with coming loose.
Thankfully you could only see a tiny shiny spot on one baffle where the bullet had just kissed it, no damage to the suppressor. My buddy is super OCD so he sent it in and they recored it for him even though the damage was purely cosmetic. He went to the Dead Air keymo mounting system after that.
Posts: 14153 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 04, 2003
I had another suppressor alignment issue recently.
After I purchased a Tikka T3x CTR in 308 Winchester I installed a Thunder Beast CB muzzle brake to use with my TBAC suppressor. After a range session firing a few rounds I decided to check the alignment with a .30 Geissele rod and found that the rod was very slightly off center at the end cap. That prompted me to look closely and I noticed what appeared to be a slight wipe mark on the edge of the exit hole. I hadn’t noticed any point of impact problems during the range session, but the two findings led me to conclude that there was an alignment problem. When I checked the short muzzle brake everything seemed okay, but any misalignment would of course be greater farther from the muzzle at the end of the suppressor.
I contacted TBAC and a very helpful rep advised that the problem might be due to a misaligned shoulder of the threaded portion of the barrel. He told me that for a reasonable price ($75, plus shipping both ways, of course) they would correct everything with the barrel, brake, and can, so off they all went. A month later everything’s fixed, but first I got a call from the representative. He told me the problem had probably occurred because the peel washer to time the muzzle brake was damaged. That led to the immediate recollection that I had cheaped out and used a previously-used washer when attaching the brake. I assumed that because the washer was going to be squashed between the brake and barrel and minor damage would not matter.
So: Lesson one is don’t reuse critical parts. Second, be thankful I had the Geissele rod to confirm my question before I continued shooting while assuming everything was okay, and a possibly less-stable bullet destroyed the suppressor’s end cap.
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Posts: 47647 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002
What kind of shoulder does the barrel have? I have come across more than a few .30 barrels with very minimal shoulders, which would have required the muzzle device be seated against the face of the barrel, rather than the shoulder, for confidence.
If the shoulder can't accommodate the OD of the shim, then I don't like it.
Posts: 2454 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021
I believe the shoulder diameter is sufficient. The diameter of the barrel at that point is 0.7875 inch (20mm) and the outer diameter of the peel washer is 0.858", or a total difference of 0.0605".
What I find interesting is that I don’t believe a peel washer was used at all when the muzzle brake was reattached. If a standard washer were used, it would extend beyond the diameter of the barrel and I don’t see anything. I assume if that’s true they were able to recut the shoulder so that the brake was timed properly without a spacer.
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Posts: 47647 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002
When you say "peel washer" are you talking shims from the stack that TB gives you that you have to heat to take apart? Or something else? The smallest of those has a thickness of like .05" and I could never see the possibility for reuse without issues.This message has been edited. Last edited by: hrcjon,
“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
Yes, that is what they are called, and it’s so good to know we agree. I just wish I could have asked you about doing that before I did. That would have saved me a lot of expense and inconvenience. Oh, well, perhaps next time.
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Posts: 47647 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002
I hate the shim stack that TB gives you and I have been using the surefire shims instead (and its very inexpensive) but I really like the looks of those precisionarmament shims... OK ordered let's see what they look like in real lifr.
“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
OK they arrived today. Certainly well made. But philosophically a completely different setup than I have normally dealt with. The 'shims' in the surefire stack, for example, range from .001-.020 in thickness". The smallest surefire one is unbelievably thin. The smallest shim (I think its better to call them spacers) in the PA stack is .060 in size. So they have spacers to solve all your clocking issues but they do it by basically using up a revolution of the threads to start. I don't think that's a problem but its distinctly different. All the spacers in the kit are comparatively HUGE compared to those I have used in the TB peel washers or the SF shims.
“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
There is no point in an "alignment rod" There is only one way to thread or attach a suppressor onto you weapon and there is sufficient clearance inside the suppressor. If you have cross-threaded your suppressor onto you firearm then you have just ruined the piston attachment threads and / or the barrel of you firearm so some of it can go in the trash can anyway. If you have properly threaded it on and it is not aligned then you suppressor was defective and there will be no way to correct the alignment anyway. A suppressor for a .45 caliber pistol, for instance, does not have a .451" hole; it is likely to be .500" or more, which is plenty of clearance for any thread play. I have shot a pretty fair amount of suppressed weapons and have yet to see one somehow get misaligned. This is a waste of time and money, but if it makes you feel better then by all means go for it.
Did you happen to read this thread? I'm guessing not since what you just said is refuted by examples in the thread itself. And I see your also posting just to post on old dead threads what's up with that?
“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
