Anyone using Titanium cans on shorter guns? I have had a Gemtech Trek Ti on a 10" gun for a while now, and am starting to wonder if it's not a good idea. I love how handy it is, but Titanium supposedly erodes faster in high heat/pressure environments. I have only had the silencer off the gun once, since initial installation, and noticed only minimal wear at that time. I accept the fact that anything will wear away over time, especially on short barrels, and am almost inclined to just stay the course and accept the risks. Anyone have any experiences that might convince me to take that can off that particular gun? Thanks for your consideration.
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Most cans like that will have barrel length limits. Does Gemtech have any such limits posted for that can?
If you aren't doing mag dumps, and you are following the recommended barrel lengths, I don't think you'd see any issues.
-- Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past me I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. --
I don't have a machine gun, and don't do mag dumps, so no worries about abuse there. I am aware of barrel restrictions, but admittedly ignore them. I was curious if anyone had any feedback from their own titanium silencer ownership to the effect of "Good God! You're gonna ruin that can in a hurry!", that may have motivated me to reconsider the setup. Otherwise, I accept the accelerated wear associated with disobeying barrel-length recommendations.
I have around 5K rounds on a TBAC Ultra 7, 11.5" and 12.5" 556. No wear what so ever. Not the least concerned about wear. Several friends have way more rounds on their titanium SBR AR cans then I do.
Ignoring the barrel length restrictions... Suppressors/baffles are rated for a muzzle pressure. Exceeding that muzzle pressure, mininum barrel length recommendation, bad things can happen in which titatnium wear will be the least of your concerns.
That's the kind of feedback I am after. Thank you. The manual states a minimum length of 10.4". I am using it on a 10" barrel. I imagine it will be just fine, as it is actually warranted for "limited full auto use" on 10.4". Considering I don't make a habit of prolonged rapid fire, I reckon I have nothing to worry about. Of course this is all assuming that the pressure increase created by .4" less of barrel is not of any real significance, when compared to pressures created by full-auto use on the warranted 10.4" length.
Thanks for the reports on titanium wear too.
Full auto by itself does not really increase the pressure or stress, it's the heat from full auto that will cause a failure. "Limited full auto" there's a temperature rating that goes along with that.
Interesting 10.4" minimum.... thumbs down on a MK18 10.3", thumbs up on 10.5".
I had the same thought on the MK18. Makes you wonder if that 10.4" rating is deliberate, a typo, or maybe even a misinterpretation of MK18 specs.
Does full-auto not cause a slight compounding effect, when it comes to pressure? I know you get a lot more backpressure effect when shooting 10 rounds rapid vs 10 rounds slow fire. Would the inside of the can not experience a similar effect?
A lot more back pressure....how much more?
I occasionally run into the TBAC guys at matches, next time I see them I'll ask about this stuff. How they determine barrel length, muzzle pressure, heat effect....
Well, my measuring devices (my face/eyes and my view of the internal components of my firearm after firing) aren't exactly scientific or properly calibrated. I just know that I can slow-fire my rifles and not experience any gas stinging my eyes or debris in my face. Also, my rifles don't get nearly as fouled as quickly if firing slowly. Pick up the pace and you bring on the burn and the grime in a hurry. I figure there must be a similar effect forward of the gas port too, in terms of a compounding effect.
I'm married to a statistician who has slowly worn off on me. "A lot more" doesn't fly around here, need a number man
I have no way of quantifying what I am talking about. I am sure you can relate to what I said above, considering your own experience with silencers.
|It's pronounced just |
the way it's spelled
The silencer captures the high pressure gasses coming out of the barrel. It takes time for the captured gasses to flow past the internal baffles and out the hole at the end of the silencer. If you shoot faster than the time it takes those gasses to exit the silencer, the pressure will increase inside the silencer.
That's what I was speculating. Overall, I think my concerns with that can on that gun have been dispelled.
I recently asked an industry veteran about shooting silencers on barrels shorter than their rating. I inquired whether the main concern was accelerated wear, or a potential catastrophic failure. He said it is definitely the catastrophic potential that is the concern, but not due to pressures associated with firing through the can on a shorter barrel. He said it is the potential that unburnt powder deposits in the can will ignite and cause a pressure spike. So the shorter barrel letting more unburnt powder into the can is the problem. I don't know if that really makes sense to me though; if that was the case, how could any company have "no barrel restrictions"? Surely no can could hold up to a detonation of unburnt powder deposits, depending on the degree of the deposits. I thought it was an interesting-enough response to share here.
First I'm not really experienced in this area. I run my stuff within the limits of what the mfg. says.
But that said what I'm told is that the limit on titanium is temp. Example: Thunderbeast says keep the thing under 800 degrees. They have barrel limits as well, but nothing too harsh, maybe pressure?. But the one thing they say without limitations is TEMP.
“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
Now I am curious about what kind of temps I produce, during a typical practice session. I think a friend has a laser thermometer thing; I'll have to try to borrow it.
This is the word-for-word response of the industry guy I asked that question to...
"The problem you will run into is the suppressor will fill up with unburned powder and after a time that powder will ignite and that is really rough on a suppressor. sometimes they just cannot take the pressures. there is no guarantee that they can hold up."
I'm running a Sig SRD-556 on my 553. Although it's not rated for it, I'm told by a friend in the industry that it has an Inconel blast baffle and then titanium. No apparent erosion thus far and it's seen more use than any other rifle can I own.
We've had it run hot enough to glow cherry red and has an awesome rainbow color to it now.
This article seems to illustrate exactly what was described, in that email correspondence I quoted above. At a certain point, the temperature of the can, combined with the unburnt powder within, caused a detonation. The B&T can was built to take it, but perhaps a lesser can would have catastrophically failed in that moment.
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