Kept it simple, kept it limited to the cans and the SBR's that they mount on. It... was a glorious trip. In order:

PS90
Scorpion
URG-I 11.5"
Bren 2 11"

Ecco Machine Phoenix TL
Griffin Armament Explorr 224 taper mount
Otter Creek Polonium

The FN and the rifles have Griffin taper mount muzzle devices and the Otter Creek has a taper mount adapter in it, so I was able to try both cans on all three of those. The Ecco Phoenix is direct threaded on the Scorpion and basically lives there for now.

The sweetheart of the rodeo was the P90. I bought an HBI mount for the PA Micropriapism 1x I picked up. It has a green cyclops reticle, and it was very easy to pick up in full desert sun. I used the EZ-Brake that came with the Griffin can and shot it unsuppressed until I got it on paper and was happy with my group, then threaded the Explorr on and fired a three round group. I couldn't help grinning like an idiot. With Fiocchi Range Dynamics 40gr, I'm gonna say it may well be hearing safe suppressed. It is hilariously quiet. I picked up two boxes of their 62gr subsonic that I'm saving for an occasion where I'm not contending with other shooters and can shoot without ears on, just to try it. It's very, very quiet with the Explorr, and even quieter with the Polonium. There was a British fellow who came over on the ceasefire and asked about "the bullpup." I briefly explained what it was, and when I said FN, he perked up. He was an armorer in the RAF and had a soft spot for some of the FN rifles they had. I let him shoot ten rounds out of it suppressed and he couldn't wipe the grin off his face. He thanked me profusely and said it was the highlight of his day. It was for me, too.

Next, I shot the Scorpion. This, I didn't enjoy quite as much. In fact, I am enjoying this one less and less. This gun jumps around a lot for a 9mm, and at least with this suppressor on it, it kicks harder than a 9mm subgun analog has any right to. I need to order the 125% recoil spring and see what it does. It was quiet with 115gr Magtech, however, and I'm curious to see how the 147gr Aguila subsonic I bought does in it. Hopefully the 8" barrel doesn't edge it up to supersonic. All the muzzle devices and adapters that went into cans are fixed with either Rocksett or Vibratite Hot Lock, but with this one, I was really concerned about suppressor walk-off. Lots of searching yielded a suggestion to put two wraps of yellow plumber's tape on the threads and then crank the suppressor on hard. This, I did. I checked it once it cooled down, and it hadn't budged. I didn't want to have to check the can every three rounds, so I'd say since it didn't budge with 35 rounds, maybe that's mission accomplished. I had five other loaded Pmags and didn't feel a need to shoot it any more than the one. What a disappointment. Need to get that recoil spring in there and spend some more time with it and see. I might very well retire this one to the back of the safe and start over with another 9mm "PCC" per my thread in Mason's.

The URGI. I really like this rifle. It's a smooth shooter, and today proved it to be accurate as well. I brought 150 rounds of Remington M193 not planning to do anything but sight everything in, and I went through all of it and wished I'd brought another magazine or two. Oh, and as of yesterday, it's wearing an EXPS3-0. I decided to just go for it and buy a big-boy not Chinese optic for it since it's my primary night vision rifle. It zeroed quickly and then I started engaging the emplaced steel targets at 300 yards. Once I found my hold, I just rang the 24" gong for round after round with a quickening tempo. Incredibly satisfying. This is fast becoming my favorite thing in the safe.

Bren 2. It honestly performed no worse than the URGI. It was just as easy to score hits with at 300, and the HBI trigger in it is a close contender with the Geissele G2S in the URGI - a clean two stage with a really light take up and a clean break. It's very easy to prep the trigger and drop clean shots with it. My issue right now is I have the unmodified gas piston, and it has two settings which I believe are standard and adverse. There's a third setting that shuts off the gas altogether, which I forgot all about, or I would have tried it, because while it didn't feel massively overgassed while shooting it, I noticed all the casemouths were dented from shooting in the standard setting. It also got too hot to hold, the entire handguard from the chamber all the way forward on just one 30rd magazine fired at a cadence of one round every couple seconds. This was in the shade, too, so I can't imagine shooting it out in full sun on a hot day as it's currently set up. I need to send the gas plug to HBI and have them machine a suppressor setting in it. I forget who came out with a 46 setting adjustable gas plug in February. That seemed ridiculous until today. I need to find who that was and see if I can find some feedback on it. The Bren wasn't gassy with the Explorr, but the Polonium got some squirting out the back. Wasn't horrible, however.

I didn't get gassed out once, but I did get the Polonium so hot it was smoking. That was fun. It is a gassy can, there's no doubt about it. It is quieter than the Explorr, but not by a hell of a lot. Honestly, with all the tradeoffs, I think the Griffin is a better can. It's lighter, it's more compact, it's nearly as quiet, and it doesn't blast gas back in my face on anything I put it on. I am seriously impressed with it. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. I did see that Ecco looked over one of these exact models and said there wasn't enough material in the blast chamber to jailbreak it to HUB, however, so if you don't want to be stuck in Plan A mounts, get the "Utility Mount" version. Or, save the couple hundred bucks and tune your rifles around a Polonium. I don't regret buying both cans. Today's weather was pretty blustery, with sustained moderate winds, so maybe that had something to do with my "the gas wasn't bad" opinion. Might feel different indoors or on a calm day. I don't look at ejection patterns on my rifles, if they cycle, I tend to call it good, so "tuning" my URGI around the Polonium... ehhhhh, probably not. At least not right now. It shoots pretty damn smooth with the Spikes T2 tungsten powder buffer and the Tubb's flatwire buffer spring. I don't feel like pulling the upper apart to dick around with adjustable gas tubes and all that, at least not right now.

Now that everything is zeroed for the optics they're wearing, I'm going to cowitness IR lasers tonight so everything is ready for the night shoot Saturday. Got about a dozen other guys with NODs, a bunch of steel targets, and a nice spot up against a mountain out in the desert. So, I'll get to run all of these through some drills in the dark in 48 hours, some with subsonic ammo. Really looking forward to that. I'm a convert. More cans are going to happen. Suppress all the things.

Thanks for the great report.

If you're able, try to do a flash comparison during your night shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
If you're able, try to do a flash comparison during your night shoot.

Yeah, that's specifically one thing I'm looking forward to. Gonna have a friend shoot a couple rounds out of each rifle with both cans on them, and take video through another friend's spare PVS14. He has a nice Photonis Echo+ that's super clear, so I'm hoping I should be able to get some good comparison video.

The Bren2 with no gas is my favorite when I really want to see what something sounds like.

That's disappointing about the Scorpion. It was one of the other top contenders when I got my SP5K. Is this a new 3+ or the previous version? The ergonomics on them look nice, but if it doesn't feel great to shoot...

Aren't those direct blowback? Think that's the main issue because of a heavier bolt assembly?

It’s a common complaint with the Scorpion. It’s simply a heavy bolt direct blowback gun Don’t think it matters much which version/generation.

I am surprised the P(S)90 sounds as good as Smudge says. It's got the same heavy bolt knocking back-and-forth. I have always loved the P90; dare I say even more than the MP5. I hope to have one some day, and Smudge's report of silencer performance makes that even more likely.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
The Bren2 with no gas is my favorite when I really want to see what something sounds like.

Ohhhh, good call. Didn't think of that. I'll have to try that out tonight.

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
That's disappointing about the Scorpion. It was one of the other top contenders when I got my SP5K. Is this a new 3+ or the previous version? The ergonomics on them look nice, but if it doesn't feel great to shoot...

Aren't those direct blowback? Think that's the main issue because of a heavier bolt assembly?

It's an early Gen 1, but the critical internal stuff hasn't changed. Yeah, direct blowback, big carrier and bolt assembly. It jumped around a bit before, but with this can on it, it actually kicks. Now, I went with the ten baffle version of the suppressor (offered in 8, 10, and 12), and a lot of guys use K cans on these guns. I kind of get why now. Still, it's supposed to be a low backpressure can. I guess there's only so much that can be done - you can't cheat physics. Bringing 105rds of the Aguila 147gr to shoot through it tonight, maybe it's less stout than the 115gr, I don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
I am surprised the P(S)90 sounds as good as Smudge says. It's got the same heavy bolt knocking back-and-forth. I have always loved the P90; dare I say even more than the MP5. I hope to have one some day, and Smudge's report of silencer performance makes that even more likely.

The bolt in the P90 is nowhere near as heavy as the Scorpion, it's like comparing apples to tennis balls. The recoil impulse on the P90 is more like a .22 mag both suppressed and not. Suppressed, you mostly hear the action as opposed to the report, it's hilarious. I took a few videos yesterday, I'll email them to you in a minute. Mic compression on the phone notwithstanding, you get an idea how silly quiet it is.

Got all my stuff packed up, waiting on a buddy to show up so we can load up and head down. Got a nice mix of subsonic and standard velocity stuff for the two "subguns," mags marked with green tape for ease in the dark. I messed around with my friend's loaner PVS14 and got the phone bracket dialed in for my stuff, so I'm ready to film. It's a really clean, clear tube, too, so footage ought to catch any muzzle flash pretty well. Moon at I believe 94% tonight at 60° in the sky, but moonrise at 10pm. We'll be out there several hours prior to that, and we're gonna be pretty well away from light pollution and it'll be dark, so I should be able to get footage in both dark and bright night conditions. Really looking forward to that.

Just got back, need some time to unwind before I head to bed, so I might as well get my thoughts out now.

The Polonium seems to flash less, but it was a quick five round test per can per rifle and then we got onto other things. It's quieter than the Explorr, but it's proportionately gassier. I did not get gassed out at any point, and the air was pretty still for most of the night until very late, so I don't think it's gassy to the point where I think it's a problem. It just is. Not going to bother "tuning" the URGI around it, and it's just going to live on that gun. That combo works well - it's quiet, cycles smoothly, and shoots well. I think the Geissele Airborne charging handle helps vent a lot of the gas out of the way. I saw a video Hop did where he didn't have a high opinion of it, but I'm just going to go ahead and say I disagree with him on this one.

The PS90 suppressed is still the sweetheart of the rodeo, but honestly, it's a lot of money into a pure meme gun. I dunno that this one is going to get a hell of a lot of range time. It's a waste anywhere other people shooting, especially unsuppressed, so I'm not going to take it to a public range all that much.

The Scorpion suppressed... I think I've figured out what my problem is. The problem is, I shot that integrally suppressed B&T SPC9 a few weekends ago, and it was hearing safe with 115gr range ammo. It was seriously no louder than a CO2 BB gun. I got spoiled for anything less. I want that, and this Scorpion isn't that, and it isn't going to be that. With 115gr ammo, it seems really loud for what it is. The echo of the sonic crack coming back at me from the mountains was amazing and impressive. When I switched to the subsonic ammo, the report was silly quiet, and the sound of the action was louder, much louder. In fact, trying to shoot it with no ears on is not something I would attempt much of. It was just a lot of loud action cycling in my right ear. I think a roller-delayed gun would do better for this. Maybe I just have unrealistic or unreasonable expectations. I have a history of that. Now, there is a suppressor/barrel combo that Innovative Arms makes that makes the Scorpion subsonic with 115gr ammo, but you're still going to get that action noise at the ear because it's a blowback gun. As the saying goes: "You don't know what you don't know," and now I get it about the blowback action and a suppressor. It just isn't the premium combination. I didn't notice recoil and jump and all that as much as I thought I would tonight. Different setting, and I think with the active earpro and altered vision, some other things get noticed less.

It also didn't help that one of the guys who came to the shoot tonight has both an APC9, and an integrally suppressed GHM9, and picked up the latter for $1,800. I'm sure he got a hell of a deal on it, but still, I could have that or more invested in turd polishing with the Scorpion and still not be happy with the results.

I'm going to spend some more time with it and see what I want to do. What will probably happen is I'm going to put it back to factory configuration, stick it in the back of the safe, and forget about it. I now understand a little better why guys love the MP5, but I grew up on an HK91 and the legacy HK platform just doesn't do it for me. I have a thing for space guns, and it's 2024 - there simply has to be a better mousetrap by now, right?

Now, all my misgivings about the gun it's on left aside, the Ecco Machine Phoenix TL sounds great. It does what it's supposed to do, and does it well. It's lighter than many other suppressors in it's class at about 8oz for the ten baffle 6.5". It's 1.3" in diameter, so suppressor height sights on a pistol should clear it nicely. It's got a nice tone to it. I may have to look into mounting it on some pistols and see what that's like. Oh, and the direct thread plumbers tape still hasn't budged through 140 rounds of mixed ammo, so that's definitely a nice trick for something you're going to just leave on a gun and may not have much to do with the suppressor itself, but there it is.

Without getting too deep into it, I am starting to wonder if I want to get too invested into a bunch of Plan A stuff. Need to shoot more and think about it. There's a lot of upsides, but honestly, the downsides it has, Plan B supposedly does not. I did learn not to reef down on the cans, because it isn't necessary and only makes removing them harder. All of them cooled down very quickly, which was nice. I did a few mag dumps and got them smoking. Letting them sit for about ten or fifteen minutes had them cool to the touch, which was a nice surprise.

I do have some other thoughts, but they're fairly well specific to night vision and shooting under NODs and we have a thread for that I'll hit up tomorrow.