SIGforum
Keeping tax stamp on hand just in case ?
October 06, 2022, 05:33 PM
DaBigBRKeeping tax stamp on hand just in case ?
quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
quote:
I'm fairly certain local LEOs don't really have any jurisdiction over NFA items
I don't get this or the corresponding thoughts by Dwill104.
I think in almost every State there is a prohibition on possession with an exception for properly NFA registered items (does you State actually permit machineguns? I'd like to see one that does?)
So in that case the local police have a State law violation and of course they have jurisdiction on that.
Correct.
They also have the ability to, at minimum, present cases to the US Attorney for prosecution. If there is probable cause to believe your NFA item is possessed illegally, the overwhelming (and I mean OVERWHELMING) likelihood is that that they will be able to legally seize it.
This may be a "you might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride" situation if your stuff is legal. It's so much easier to just have a copy of your paperwork accessible and to present it if it's requested by anybody with a badge.
I could ramble on for paragraphs about three legal issues at play, the potential outcomes, etc., but at the end of the day, "yep, here's a copy of my approved form with stamp" is a nearly sure way to not have to find out. If that doesn't work, then "I'm a free man and do not have to show you anything" wasn't going to work either.
October 22, 2022, 10:28 PM
2PAKWhen I take my Suppressors out of the safe and travel with them away from the house, I have a color copy of the paperwork for each with me in the range bag.
October 30, 2022, 05:21 PM
MikeinNCI keep a copy that is laminated in the clipboard I use for targets. It goes with the gun bag when I leave the house. The original stays in the safe.
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein
“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020
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SigFanJust today at the indoor range I was shooting my CGS-9 and Dead Air Mask, one of the employees came up and asked if I had a copy of my tax stamp. I have laminated miniature color photocopies of my Form 4’s with each item as well as a scanned PDF in my phone. The originals stay in the safe!
The employee was almost apologizing for the intrusion and said “We have to ask” but I was fine with it anyway; I didn’t perceive it as a problem that he asked. Funny thing is last time I shot there when I had just gotten my Mask I asked about it but they didn’t even ask to see the Form 4. Today I had been shooting the Mod-9 a while but had stopped to rest, and that’s when came up and tapped me on the shoulder. He was very polite and courteous about it. I hadn’t yet pulled out the Mask, but I showed him the Form 4 for it also to save him having to come back and ask later.
In an ideal world a tax stamp/Form 4 wouldn’t be required anyway, but that’s not the current reality.
Regards From Sunny Tucson,
SigFan
NRA Life - IDPA - USCCA - GOA - JPFO - ACLDN - SAF - AZCDL - ASA
"Faith isn't believing that God can; it's knowing that He will." (From a sign on a church in Nicholasville, Kentucky)
November 04, 2022, 11:58 PM
casNo NFA stuff in my state, but I do have extra evil registered assault weapons.
I keep a copy of mein papers
(wis ze German accent) rolled up in the hollow compartment of the Magpul grips. (there may be one in the stock of one of my Benelli's as well, don't recall for sure now)
December 05, 2022, 07:23 PM
Bisleyblackhawkquote:
Originally posted by DTREND75:
I make photocopies of the stamp and fold them up and place them in the Magpul grips of the gun. That way I always have it with the gun.
.
This…wrapped in a small ziplock bag
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"we've gotta roll with the punches, learn to play all of our hunches
Making the best of what ever comes our way
Forget that blind ambition and learn to trust your intuition
Plowing straight ahead come what may
And theres a cowboy in the jungle"
Jimmy Buffet
December 06, 2022, 09:00 AM
myrottietyquote:
Originally posted by Bisleyblackhawk:
quote:
Originally posted by DTREND75:
I make photocopies of the stamp and fold them up and place them in the Magpul grips of the gun. That way I always have it with the gun.
.
This…wrapped in a small ziplock bag
+1 I keep the stamps for both the SBR & Suppressor the storage compartment of the B5 SOPMOD stock. It's got x2 great storage compartments on each side.
Train how you intend to Fight
Remember - Training is not sparring. Sparring is not fighting. Fighting is not combat. December 06, 2022, 12:33 PM
Expert308quote:
Originally posted by myrottiety:
quote:
Originally posted by Bisleyblackhawk:
quote:
Originally posted by DTREND75:
I make photocopies of the stamp and fold them up and place them in the Magpul grips of the gun. That way I always have it with the gun.
.
This…wrapped in a small ziplock bag
+1 I keep the stamps for both the SBR & Suppressor the storage compartment of the B5 SOPMOD stock. It's got x2 great storage compartments on each side.
I don't really trust those pistol grip (or buttstock) compartments, because Murphy. I keep ziplock-bagged color copies of my form 4's in my range bag and also in the glove compartment of my truck. The originals stay at home in the safe (normally, that is - I just recently moved and the safe was out of my control for a few days, so the silencers and the form 4's stayed right with me).
December 06, 2022, 04:44 PM
hrcjonI don't have a trust problem, but since there could be any number of different suppressors on the gun can you stuff a bunch of them in a compartment. Mine aren't mated to a specific gun but picked for the goal of the day.
Myself I have a notebook with copies of all of them. One of those is in my vehicle as I'm not going anywhere off my property except in a vehicle.
“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
December 07, 2022, 01:14 AM
Tiger 2 TankHere yeah go. Quick and excellent video on the subject. It will answer your questions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVoBlQuQ_S4February 16, 2023, 03:19 PM
smschulzDoesn't it just make you sick in the stomach for having to provide documentation every time you exercise a 2A right?
I would never ever say not to cooperate by any means but somehow it seems it would lessen the joy of shooting by having to to provide 'papers' all the time.
February 16, 2023, 05:55 PM
hrcjonWho the heck has to provide papers all the time? is there someplace this is the norm? I've never heard of it. And I've certainly never experienced it. The issue is if pressed can you produce the paperwork, and I would argue its best to be able to do that. It doesn't seem like a big deal or major project. I get that the fact that suppressors are even NFA items has its own set of discussions.
“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
March 10, 2023, 11:00 AM
gw3971I have photos of all my stamps and paperwork on my phone. Since they send you a picture of the stamped paperwork I figure a picture of the form and stamp will do just fine.
March 12, 2023, 08:15 AM
AnubismpIts funny, the only time I've ever had to show paperwork for NFA stuff was for a range nazi at a public range.
I treat my paperwork like my passport when I'm abroad. I keep the real stuff locked up and have a picture of it if someone needs to see it. If that's not good enough then the not your jurisdiction stuff could come out but said enforcer would be a real idiot to take it there. Also, that's likely to waste a ton of your time while they are still getting paid for the interaction. That said, it does seem like every department is federally mandated to have at least one idiot.
I say show it if asked and save yourself the hassle but I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on tv.
March 14, 2023, 02:12 PM
jhe888Can they demand it? I would argue no, but that won't help you if some cop wants to see it, whether or not she is justified.
So keep a copy with you, unless you want to pick a fight and be the test case.
The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. March 14, 2023, 02:18 PM
jhe888quote:
Originally posted by SigFan:
Just today at the indoor range I was shooting my CGS-9 and Dead Air Mask, one of the employees came up and asked if I had a copy of my tax stamp. I have laminated miniature color photocopies of my Form 4’s with each item as well as a scanned PDF in my phone. The originals stay in the safe!
The employee was almost apologizing for the intrusion and said “We have to ask” but I was fine with it anyway; I didn’t perceive it as a problem that he asked. Funny thing is last time I shot there when I had just gotten my Mask I asked about it but they didn’t even ask to see the Form 4. Today I had been shooting the Mod-9 a while but had stopped to rest, and that’s when came up and tapped me on the shoulder. He was very polite and courteous about it. I hadn’t yet pulled out the Mask, but I showed him the Form 4 for it also to save him having to come back and ask later.
In an ideal world a tax stamp/Form 4 wouldn’t be required anyway, but that’s not the current reality.
They don't have to ask for any reason contained in law, but since it is a private business, they may ask and have every right to do so, and we should be prepared to show them.
The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. March 14, 2023, 03:36 PM
Ryanp225You guys have paperwork?
March 14, 2023, 04:45 PM
GustoferI don't keep copies of my stamps anywhere but in my filing cabinet. If somebody wants to see them they are more than welcome to swing by and I'll show it to them.
Around these parts? I'm not even remotely concerned about it. Actually, shortly after I put the Sandman on my SCAR I ran into the Sheriff at the range. He was admiring the set up and didn't even think to ask if I had a stamp. He probably wouldn't have cared if I didn't. Just another reason I like it here.
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"Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton.
March 30, 2023, 12:56 PM
BB61I have a folder on my Kindle for 2A related documents. As I always have my phone which has the Kindle app on it, I always have proof if needed. That being said, I also have a copy in my SBR range bag as well. I do not see the need to raise any alarms, when I am carrying a dangerous weapon, while interacting with LEO who are also carrying a dangerous weapon. IMO being courteous can go a long way in keeping innocuous interactions innocuous.
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April 05, 2023, 02:13 PM
rkentmquote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
quote:
Originally posted by SigFan:
Just today at the indoor range I was shooting my CGS-9 and Dead Air Mask, one of the employees came up and asked if I had a copy of my tax stamp. I have laminated miniature color photocopies of my Form 4’s with each item as well as a scanned PDF in my phone. The originals stay in the safe!
The employee was almost apologizing for the intrusion and said “We have to ask” but I was fine with it anyway; I didn’t perceive it as a problem that he asked. Funny thing is last time I shot there when I had just gotten my Mask I asked about it but they didn’t even ask to see the Form 4. Today I had been shooting the Mod-9 a while but had stopped to rest, and that’s when came up and tapped me on the shoulder. He was very polite and courteous about it. I hadn’t yet pulled out the Mask, but I showed him the Form 4 for it also to save him having to come back and ask later.
In an ideal world a tax stamp/Form 4 wouldn’t be required anyway, but that’s not the current reality.
They don't have to ask for any reason contained in law, but since it is a private business, they may ask and have every right to do so, and we should be prepared to show them.
A privately owned establishment can always ask, but I can always say, “No thank you.” At that point, they can either leave me alone or ask me to leave. What they have no right to do (and a range tried this once with me) is DEMAND I show them my stamp.
I mean I guess they could go down the path of citizens arrest and claim they witnessed a Felony being committed in their presence, but that seems like a stretch at the very least.
Credentialed LE on duty, I agree it is wiser just to show them. Some random range goof? I will politely decline.
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