Went to this yesterday with some friends. I wanted to check out a PTR Vent 2, Spiritus, and a Griffin Optimus 6, but other than those, didn't have any particular goals. Shot a bunch of guns, got to do some full auto strings out of MP5's and M16's of various flavors. Five rounds out of a Genesis 12 full auto with, I believe, the Hux can that was made for it. Three rounds auto out of a suppressed TP9, which was hilarious.

As for cans, there were some interesting discoveries. I was really interested in the PTR Spiritus after seeing this video.



tl;dw is the guy is dumbfounded at how quiet it is on a 11.5" URGI and shoots multiple mags through it with no ears on and declares it's hearing safe. Having an 11.5" URGI, of course I was interested. I tried it on their 16" rifle. Three rounds, the first two with ears off. It was painful. I put my muffs back on for the third and final shot and set it down in disgust. Was it quieter than unsuppressed? Undoubtedly. Was it anything like the YouTube dude was claiming? Not remotely. The Vent 2, I found to be painless without ears on a five round auto string from an MP5. It was actually very pleasant. My impression of that can from shooting a year ago holds true: fantastic suppression, I got no whiffs of gas, and whether I would or not with an MP5 anyway is maybe another conversation, but a quick look at and into the gun before I handed it back surprised me - It wasn't dirty. It wasn't spotless, but it wasn't caked with fouling and shit like my Stribog would be, and it had been shot more or less continuously for about three hours at that point. That's kinda what I'm going for, here.

I did hardly any shooting with ears off, before anyone starts on that. I know cans don't make guns "hearing safe." I know that. My hearing isn't what it was when I was a kid because of playing too many band rehearsals and shows without ear pro, but my hearing is actually pretty sensitive to loud stuff. I don't shoot suppressed rifles without ear protection. The few times I've attempted to shoot any of my suppressed 9mm's with subs, the action noise is loud enough that I only get maybe a couple rounds off before I put the muffs back on.

Alright, that out of the way, I did shoot a few other host/can combos without ears on to get a true feel for what they were actually doing. I got to try that Griffin Optimus 6, and three rounds from a 16" AR with no ears on was painless, and far better than the Spiritus. No gas, either. I was surprised and impressed. I also shot five rounds through a Revolution 9 on a Glock 45, with 165gr subs. I did that one without ears also, and it was painless. I was pretty impressed there also. Very quiet, pleasant can. I hear that suppressed pistols blow a lot of stuff back in the shooter's face, especially with Glocks, and I had none of that. I enjoyed my chat with the guy running the table, and came away with the impression that they're just good people trying to make the best product they can at reasonable prices. I like Griffin.

Oh, we stopped by the Q booth. I... am not a Q fan. I don't like Kevin Brittingham, I think he's a drunk and a loudmouth, and yes, it takes one to know one and I still don't like him. The attitude of the kids running the booth was on-brand for every video I've seen out of that company: douchey swagger, inordinately cocky, and talked unwarranted shit on other companies while we were there. I shot a Southpaw on a Fuckweasel or whatever, and it was just like shooting my rifles with my Polonium on it. In fact, that's basically exactly what it is, despite all KB's posturing and drama lately, which if you haven't been following, has been an unwarranted pissing match he initiated with Otter Creek. It ended with Andrew from Otter Creek buying a Southpaw, cutting it in half on a bandsaw, and posting the pictures on Instagram. It's a fucking Polonium from stem to stern. Shoots like it, sounds like it, same sixty degree baffles as the Form 1 cans from a few years ago and basically most of suppressor history, but it's twice as expensive because engineers or something. The Fix my buddy tried out had two failures to fire - light primer strikes. The guy running the booth said it was the Sig ammo and tried one out of another box and it also failed to go off. Whatever. Next.

I tried a Radical Defense PDW that honestly amazed me. I think it was the owner running the booth, because when I walked up, I said my goal for the day was to look at 9mm SBR cans and he sheepishly grimaced and said "I don't make one of those yet." He said he has a can and PCC setup in the design phase that's really promising, and he's hoping to get it out by the end of the year. It'll probably be blowback to keep it affordable. He mentioned that he's testing some versions with a CMMG radial delay setup, but that it would add a pretty penny to the final cost. We agreed that the 9mm "subgun" game meant basically spending about $1,500 and up for anything decent, and that the price point at around a thousand bucks is poised to turn into a knife fight for anything that isn't blowback. In the meantime, he said that when his version is ready, "it'll look basically just like that" and he pointed to the PDW. So I said "well, then I'd like to try it." He told me all about it and said it was designed from the ground up to function with whatever ammo, but it was as minimally gassed as he could get it. "There's a pinhole for a gas port on that thing." I shot five rounds through it, and the first two were so quiet with ears on that I pulled my muffs off for the last three. It was shockingly quiet, especially considering it was a 5.56 out of a 6" barrel. I told him I was a nobody, but I was incredibly impressed. I didn't get his name, but it was nice to meet him and I left with a really positive impression of the company. If someone were interested in the Q dedicated suppressed SBR/PDW concept AR, I'd strongly suggest taking a look at one of these before deciding.

I swung by the Otter Creek table and tried an Infinity, both with the solid and vented endcap on identical hosts. It sounded great, no noticeable backpressure. No whiffs of gas. Neither endcap sounded better than the other to my ear, but they did sound different.

Tried a Walther PDP full size, and the steel frame version. Really liked both, but can't see myself divesting myself of the Glocks to switch platforms. If someone wasn't a half dozen or more pistols into holsters and magazines, I'd say that's one to take a look at.

Oh, YHM has a 12ga can that I got to try out on an 18" 870. It wasn't unwieldy like I thought it would be, and it was actually a lot quieter, unlike the JK Armament offering, which was a total joke. Should street for around $900. I have no idea how well it would swing on birds in flight, so it's value in that role is maybe debatable, but I guess like anything else, it's like swinging a weighted bat: You get used to it.

I'll be honest, I can't even remember what all else I shot, because there really wasn't anything else that was noteworthy.

Until.

I walked past a booth with a brand I'd never heard of, and was going to keep walking until I heard one of the vendors say "Yeah, make sure you try that URGI." I wasn't going to turn up a chance to shoot another URGI with a different can on it, especially one in full auto. I turned on my heel and walked right up to the Stealth Additive Works booth. I got to talk with who turned out to be the founder/owner/engineer while I waited. He put a suppressor in my hand and told me all about it. 3D printed titanium, 8oz without mount, HUB, wild internals that looked like a fractal version of a coral reef. He told me there were no hard stops inside the can, only flow chambers that spiraled and/or turned back on themselves, gas in no place impacts a solid surface. Ok. He put the .22 can in my hand and it was about the size of a fat Sharpie. He explained that it was not only 5.7 rated, but sounded good. They shot 5.56 through a test can to see how long it took before it failed on full auto, and while he was hesitant to tell me how many rounds it took, the pitch guy running the table said they routinely do three thirty round mags on auto with no problem. Ok.

Then I got to shoot a five round string of auto through the 10.5" stock Geissele near-clone URGI upper. No ear pro. I said what I said about "hearing safe," but this may actually be. It was not only painless, it was like shooting a cap gun. It was shockingly quiet. I was stunned speechless. The guy running the table grinned and handed me a mag with seven rounds, and I ran that next and it was the same experience. I couldn't put a sentence together, I was too shocked. I think the best I could manage was "how the fuck?" Next, he had me shoot a Ruger American 5.56 with their .22 can on it. It sounded like a cap gun. A 77/22 with the .22 can was so quiet, the firing pin falling on an empty chamber legitimately wasn't any louder, it just sounded different. I shot an AK with a .30 cal version of the rifle can, and the sunsonic rounds impacting the steel at fifty were louder than the shots at the ear. I shot the .22 can on three or four different pistol hosts with .22, a S&W 5.7, and I think one was a .22 Magnum. All amazingly quiet. I didn't have ears on the whole time and there was zero discomfort, and no ringing later or since. There was a suppressed AR they had at the AAC booth one spot over, and it was louder at thirty feet than the rifle in my hands.

I hate hype. I hate hypebeast gun industry bullshit. Please understand, when I tell you this stuff, I was absolutely dumbfounded. I dragged a friend through the booth and while we waited our turn, three guys who work at EVT and do nothing but sell suppressors all day got the pitch. They were equally as dumbstruck. All the other shit on the market and all the hype... and this guy comes out of nowhere as an engineer who "isn't a gun guy" and decides to take a crack at it and makes stuff that's quieter than the PTR stuff everyone has been losing their minds over for the past year. Purposely Induced Porosity has lost all interest for me. If I'm going to drop more than a grand on a can, this one just leaped to the head of the pack. Speaking of pricing, the rifle can is $1,150, and the .22 can is $400. So, they're cheaper than a lot of the competition in addition to being so much quieter.

I had been thinking I wanted to grab a lower back pressure 9mm can for my Stribog and convert the Ecco Phoenix over to boosters and all that for pistols. I'm just tired of cleaning an absolutely filthy gun after every range trip. At least with Glocks, I can just strip them and drop them in the ultrasonic, but I can't get the barrel off the Stribog without special tools and it's kind of a bitch to get the inside of the upper totally clean. Anyways, I will probably still do that, but it maybe very well be a Griffin Revolution 9 or 45 instead of the Vent 2 because it sounded great, it's less than half the price, and each version comes with .22 end caps (and the .45 also comes with a 9mm endcap). I am going to pick up one of these Stealth Additive .22 cans as well once they're available. I didn't think to ask if they had a 9mm can in the works, but I should probably ask about that, because that's honestly what I really want. I wasn't in the market for another rifle can, but I was so impressed that I'm thinking about one of those as well. There was some discussion about titanium sparking and they said their first version had some sparking, but they'd made some revisions that mostly solved that.





Now, I didn't get to try a Dillon. The video above shows it beating the Ekron head to head, and for sure on muzzle flash. I don't know, can't say. I see the Dillon is $1,500, and if muzzle flash is a big consideration for you along with backpressure, maybe the extra $400 is worth it. There's also the issue of muzzle device, and whether the URGI was using the Surefire four prong or something else, or what the guys in the videos are using. Not knowing that, then it's hard to say if their results are representative of what Stealth Additive is currently selling and if that's already a non-issue, or will be soon. A lot to get into and this is already a long post.

*Edited a few things for clarity and expanded on a few ideas.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: P220 Smudge,

Thanks for taking the time to write that up!

The second video you posted popped in my YT feed last night and I watched it. The new 5.56 cans seem to be making leaps and bounds almost weekly. A couple of months ago I was casually looking for a CAT WB 718 for my 10.5" LMT. I never could find one and since then the Dillon and Stealth have hit the market. The CAT can that was my first choice not very long ago has suddenly dropped to third on my list.

I'm interested to see how things continue to advance in the suppressor world with printing technology.

Thanks for posting. Fascinating read!

short of maybe a .22 can its nuts to shoot any 5.56 gun without ear pro. That said an interesting read and thanks for making it. As I have said before 3d printing it absolutely revolutionizing the suppressor business. I'm personally not sure how to think about all these new, relatively unknown people making them... I guess if we continue to be at the point where the ATF delivers prompt approval and we have hub maybe it doesn't matter if the mfg. is a garage and dissapears...

Sure thing, guys! The big problem with suppressor shopping is that traditionally speaking, you don't get to try before you buy, you go through this convoluted, expensive, lengthy process, and in the end, it's a total gamble on whether or not you're going to be happy with it. Getting to try out a whole bunch of suppressors in an afternoon is huge, and I'm really lucky to live in a place where there's not one, but two groups doing annual and bi-annual industry days like this, so I feel a bit like I owe it to you guys to pass along what I can about what my impressions were.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
short of maybe a .22 can its nuts to shoot any 5.56 gun without ear pro.

Zero argument, I absolutely agree. I knew I was in for potential hearing damage when I tried it. Curiosity and "for science" overrode my norms. I have fired probably fewer than fifty rounds total on a rifle or subgun type without ears on, and for sure, less than a hundred. It's not something I make a habit of trying, I know it's too loud on supersonic calibers, and the action noise on most PCC's is loud enough that it hurts. "Remember, kids: if it hurts your ears, it's damaging your hearing."

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
As I have said before 3d printing it absolutely revolutionizing the suppressor business. I'm personally not sure how to think about all these new, relatively unknown people making them... I guess if we continue to be at the point where the ATF delivers prompt approval and we have hub maybe it doesn't matter if the mfg. is a garage and dissapears...

Yeah, this industry and a few others are definitely changing with the development of additive manufacturing and CNC-driven lasers. It's becoming more a matter of having a great idea and some startup capital than it ever was. You've mentioned hesitancy before on newer brands vs lengthy track records, and I get it. I think I'm probably more willing to buy into products from newer companies than some are, but like you say: Fast (potentially nearing instant as a matter of course) approval times and a standardized mount interface with a serial back near the base of the can all add up to me feeling a lot better about taking a gamble on a newer can. If the company goes tits up and my can blows it's brains out in a few years, I can have someone else print and weld a new baffle stack/core/whole new can onto the serialized portion. It isn't necessarily a total loss like it would have been a decade or two ago when serial numbers were engraved in the middle of the can, when it took a year or two to get your can and the company may not even exist by the time you took ownership, and everyone was using a variety of funky mounting interfaces and thread pitches, etc.

Quoting a comment from Youtube addressing my impression of the Spiritus:

quote:

I have a theory on the PTR. I do believe that the PTR is super effective, both on back pressure and sound at the muzzle and shooters ear. PTR and now Dillon are definitly pushing the innovation and tech side so I have a ton of respect for them.

I do think that the porous tech reduces in effectivness as it gets fouled (aerospace and oil and gas are using this same tech for filters). The porous tech is used for both the pressure bypass and sound suppression in these suppressors, and its super effective at both. On the Dillion and PTR it's also diffususor at the suppressor's muzzle. However, if the porous tech, is used substantially utilized internally (PTR) the back pressure and sound will increase as the suppressor gets fouled. I think that there is no better way currently to do sound suppression, and back pressure control than the porous tech.

This video may have been on a newer, or freshly cleaned can. If the can at the EVT suppressed range day was demo can that was not freshly cleaned or had several hundred rounds through it, the "flow through" performance may have been degraded. Resulting in increased back pressure and port pop.

A key design requirement for the SAW suppressors is to not have any dead spots in the suppressors for accumulation of carbon, powder, or metalic deposits. I have an un cleaned 4k round count SAW supressor sitting on my desk that was cut open to inspect. And it didn't need to be cleaned, there is even coatings of carbon on internal surfaces but no accumulation. The cool structures we use in our designs do not have "dead spots". Dead spots are where gas velocity drops to zero, or reverses direction, and deposits occur.

Coming back to the porous tech, effectivly each pore is, or potentially will become a "dead spot" for gas as it or the surrounding pores become fouled.

Getting to similar levels of performance without using the pourus tech is not so easy. Also we all know that PTR has patent pending rights on that technology. So in my book they own that technology for the next 20 years despite the fact there is time to "use" that tech before thier patents are fully granted.

(I am Zane the Owner and Engineer at SAW, so take this with a grain of salt)