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Gas band-aids for our 5.56 carbines. Login/Join 
Yew got a spider
on yo head
Picture of DoctorSolo
posted
This has been discussed peripherally in this forum, but I think it would be useful to compile some direct experience with common ways to mitigate gas-in-the-face when you put a can on your already-overgassed carbine.
I have two rifle-rated cans, a Rugged Radiant, and an Alaskan 360.

When my suppressors were still pending, I recently had my civilian spec(carbine gas, pinned front sight) LMT M4 cut down from 16" to 14" and had a "long" Rugged FH clocked and permanently attached. I really like this config, it's got iron sights and it handles and shoots great, as it always did without the can. In anticipation of some gassiness, I bought a fancy Raptor SD charging handle and a Bootleg adjustable carrier, and swapped that in, with the original LMT bolt.

I finally hit the range with the Alaskan mounted, it's a nice combo, the can is light for it's size, and chopping the barrel helped the proportions and balance a LOT. I would have thought it would have pretty low blowback with the .360 bore A360. Firing 5.56 is pretty-much the old hotdog down a hall way.

The bootleg carrier has 4 positions ranging from full-gassy to no-gas, and you can adjust it with a small screwdriver, with the carrier installed. The gun ran great without the can and the carrier set to full-gas, no surprise. (Kinda want an optic on this now, why did I leave the pinned front sight there?).

I put the Alaskan on, and the gun hushed a lot. I was in an indoor range, mind you, so the ears stayed on. It cycled fine but I got a nice whiff of ammonia on the second shot. OK then, turn the gas down one coarse notch. Next shot was pleasant, and the gun short stroked for the first time ever. I tried all of the settings and about 80 rounds and the only one that works is full-gas.

I'm betting the BCG needs to break in? The bolt is already nicely broken in with the barrel. I ran it pretty damn wet. I don't even want to try it with the 7.62 can, but maybe the extra back pressure will actually help cycling in the lower-gas settings? I'm thinking I'll run the gun a bit more without the can to break in the BCG, and add an H3 buffer, maybe try a different fancy CH too.

Needless to say, not super impressed with the Radian SD, but I guess my LMT M4 is a gassy bitch, like they all are. I couldn't get the ammonia smell out of my nose for the whole drive home after shooting the 5.56.

For comparison

Host 2: Aero 300BLK SBR, DI pistol gas 8" barrel, Timed-Brake adapter, standard full-auto carrier, standard buffer, Aero large-lever charging handle.

FAR less GITF on the 300 with the Radiant, which has the 7.62 bore. I was very surprised. That gun is VERY fun to shoot, but every time you pull the trigger, 2 dollars go to heaven.
 
Posts: 5224 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: April 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think KSGM is your go to on the bootleg carrier. I've no experience. But I've had pretty good luck with a combination of gas tube, buffer/spring and charging handle changes.
You won't give a hoot about the front sight with an optic.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 11149 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yew got a spider
on yo head
Picture of DoctorSolo
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Tuning stuff like this is fun. I hope the carrier works out, it really does smooth out the gun just one click down from full gas.

I put an H buffer in it, I think I should have left the standard buffer in there.

I can play with buffer weights and see if the 30 caliber can behaves different. Im sure it will. Lots of knobs to turn and I like the rifle so much I wanna sort it out.
 
Posts: 5224 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: April 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't have those cans but I have never had good luck till I got to at least an H2 buffer and I normally just drop an H3 in any new gun to start the tuning cycle.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 11149 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I also use H3 buffers.

The gassiness perceived is, in my opinion, spitting out of the bore upon extracting and ejecting just as much as it's coming from the gas tube. Adjustable blocks, BRT tubes, and adjustable carriers will only get you so far, if your can is inherently high-backpressure.

As previously mentioned, regardless of the gun and silencer, I always default to a H3 buffer, Sprinco red spring, and PRI charging handle. I used a Bootleg BCG for a long time, and with much success. My current configuration doesn't need it, so I don't use it.

My current rifle plays host to an Otter Creek OCM5, which is a great silencer, but has more backpressure than most. I reduced the gas operating the rifle by using a YHM suppressor gas block, which has a reduced port of (as best I can tell) .055". Gun runs great and ejects how it ought to. Gas coming back through the bore is pretty bad though; it cooks the lube off my bolt pretty quick, and can irritate my eyes.

If I implemented a gas-mitigating BCG on this gun, I'd only either hurt my reliability or it just wouldn't work.

Almost a year ago, I was using a 10.5" barrel with a Bootleg BCG opened all the way up, with the H3, Sprinco, and PRI handle. This gun had no gas-reduction implemented at the block or tube. With a Surefire RC2, this gun was unstoppable. It was a joy to shoot, and maintained its lubricity.

I have since opted for better suppression and more velocity, which has led to compromises in the gas irritation and lube cook-off departments.

*I have seen it stated that different springs are "snake oil". I don't implement a spring so much as a silencer-friendly thing, but as a feeding reliability thing. It may or may not help with the silencer tuning.
 
Posts: 2454 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yew got a spider
on yo head
Picture of DoctorSolo
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Hmm. Now I'm leaning towards an H3 buffer and XP spring, maybe put the old LMT carrier back in and set the bootleg aside for the other 5.56 upper. I really need to see how the Radiant does too.

It would be interesting to do an apples to apples charging handle gas-off. I have the Raptor SD(and non SD) and the Aero large-ambi handle, maybe I should toss a PRI in the pile.
 
Posts: 5224 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: April 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The PRI is the original gas buster handle, as far as I know. That doesn't mean it's the best. I think the Radian one you have is a good performer.

There's a few youtube videos on the subject of charging handles. I think they do make a little difference.

I think PRI set out to make theirs for the MK12 rifles. The fact that they thought it was a good idea to implement that design on a real-world rifle means something to me. It wasn't a concept conceived and motivated by the commercial market good idea fairy.
 
Posts: 2454 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
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I didn't want to chime in because I don't have a ton of experience with this stuff, but the little experience I have with my one suppressed AR has been no gas to the face whatsoever, and that's with a suppressor everyone says is gassy.

Tubb's flatwire spring.
Spike's T2 Tungsten buffer.
Geissele Airborne charging handle.
Standard gas tube and low pro gas block.
Standard carrier.

I've gotten whiffs of gas using the Polonium on my PS90 and Bren 2, but not my AR, and it's an 11.5" DD URGI barrel. As I understand it, these are supposed to be overgassed.


______________________________________________
Carthago delenda est
 
Posts: 17574 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am glad Smudge said his piece. People like me may sometimes perceive a problem, and set out to "fix" it, merely because we like fiddling with this stuff. Smudge may offer a more honest perspective.

I think atmospheric influences at the range play a big part. If conditions somehow have the gasses coming at your face and/or lingering around it one day, you may come away with an unfair opinion of your rifle's overly-gassy performance.

I think the best approach is to tune your rifle/silencer so that it operates properly and to your liking. If it still spits some gas in your face, then you may consider implementing a charging handle. If it remains gassy, then it's just the nature of the can, and there's nothing to be done about it.

I dunno. It's a weird topic. It differs so much, gun to gun. My test has long been a twelve-shot rapid fire string. If I can get through it without getting "gassed out" of a proper sight picture, then all is well.

I suspect some of it is influenced by the amount and type of lubrication used as well.
 
Posts: 2454 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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