Indiana high court rules removing GPS Tracker from vehicle is not theft.

February 25, 2020, 01:39 AM

jimmy123x

quote:
Originally posted by FiveFiveSixFan:
It sounds perfectly reasonable to me as well.

With the rapid proliferation of onboard systems in new vehicles, I wonder what will happen when agencies either hack into the systems or attempt to subpoena the data they're looking for. That should provide for some interesting cases.

Don't think it will ever happen. Look at cellphones. None of the manufacturers have allowed it.

February 25, 2020, 02:19 AM

FiveFiveSixFan

quote:
... Look at cellphones. None of the manufacturers have allowed it.

Cell phones are an entirely different animal. With tools like StingRay and KingFish, they don't need assistance from manufacturers.

February 25, 2020, 05:03 AM

r0gue

Cars will be spectacularly easy targets for hackers. Despite what manufacturers say, security will be their last priority right after whether the floor mats are stain proof enough to satisfy the leasing company.

And now, with computers that can start and stop the car at a stop sign, this will be interesting. Oh yeah, and cameras facing the driver to make sure they're not "looking down" or other such similar crimes. Fully microphone'd and cameras in every direction. on board connected computers. GPS...

It's a 2 ton smartphone that can go 100 MPH. Oh good, now they can park themselves (steer, brake, accelerate, start, stop).

I think I better hang on to my 1998 MB E430 V8.

February 25, 2020, 05:30 AM

Black92LX

quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
quote:
Originally posted by FiveFiveSixFan:
It sounds perfectly reasonable to me as well.

With the rapid proliferation of onboard systems in new vehicles, I wonder what will happen when agencies either hack into the systems or attempt to subpoena the data they're looking for. That should provide for some interesting cases.

Don't think it will ever happen. Look at cellphones. None of the manufacturers have allowed it.

Not sure what you mean it will never happen. It happens every day all day long for both cell phones and integrated vehicle systems.
Subpoenas, court orders, and warrants are done for these things on a daily basis just like trackers being put on cars still are.

February 25, 2020, 06:40 AM

jljones

Hahahahaha the last thread on this got locked.

Maybe this one will fare better. However, so far it doesn’t seem so.

February 25, 2020, 06:47 AM

dynorat

quote:
Originally posted by r0gue:
Cars will be spectacularly easy targets for hackers. Despite what manufacturers say, security will be their last priority right after whether the floor mats are stain proof enough to satisfy the leasing company.

This.

The recent recall to fix a braking software update that had issues is a perfect example. Cars are being built and sold with software that is still being developed as they roll out the door and down the road.

And now all these systems need to talk to each other. Take the radio out of many new cars, and they won't start. The number of bulletins and and updates for just radio and infotainment on new vehicles is staggering, and seems to never stop until the warranty is up unless it is emission or safety related. They put a lot of effort into fixing the features they advertised at the time of sale, but I don't recall too many TSBs to fix security issues. Yet.

February 25, 2020, 10:41 AM

HRK

Sometimes, the old ways are best....

February 25, 2020, 10:56 AM

mark_a

5G is going to blow the lid off automobile back channel communication.

Think of all the positives: Real time auto computer updates, no reason to issue a recall when you can just stick the latest bios flash in to the system.

Real time accident reporting: Just think how much faster law enforcement will be able to clear the scene of an accident. The video footage and all the vehicle telemetry will be available for a quick download. No since is blowing up the commute by closing roads.

On and on. Your car, which in the medium future will no longer be owned by you but part of a subscription plan you negotiate with the manufacturer, will be declared a public asset with no right to privacy.

The subscription plan will be incredibly attractive to most urban dwellers. Only need a car on weekends, that's all you pay for. Need a truck once a month for yard work, add that $125 option. Cities will shortly afterwards declare that only subscription based vehicles will be allowed in the city limits (commercial vehicles are exempt). Why do cities get a say? Because you will reduce congestion by a tremendous amount thereby saving the city a ton of money on building new roads.

We haven't touched on 5g enabling self driving cars...

February 25, 2020, 12:20 PM

46and2

quote:
Originally posted by mark_a:
5G is going to blow the lid off automobile back channel communication.

Think of all the positives: Real time auto computer updates, no reason to issue a recall when you can just stick the latest bios flash in to the system.

Real time accident reporting: Just think how much faster law enforcement will be able to clear the scene of an accident. The video footage and all the vehicle telemetry will be available for a quick download. No since is blowing up the commute by closing roads.

On and on. Your car, which in the medium future will no longer be owned by you but part of a subscription plan you negotiate with the manufacturer, will be declared a public asset with no right to privacy.

The subscription plan will be incredibly attractive to most urban dwellers. Only need a car on weekends, that's all you pay for. Need a truck once a month for yard work, add that $125 option. Cities will shortly afterwards declare that only subscription based vehicles will be allowed in the city limits (commercial vehicles are exempt). Why do cities get a say? Because you will reduce congestion by a tremendous amount thereby saving the city a ton of money on building new roads.

We haven't touched on 5g enabling self driving cars...

Sounds nightmarish.

February 25, 2020, 12:40 PM

flashguy

quote:
Originally posted by r0gue:
Cars will be spectacularly easy targets for hackers. Despite what manufacturers say, security will be their last priority right after whether the floor mats are stain proof enough to satisfy the leasing company.

And now, with computers that can start and stop the car at a stop sign, this will be interesting. Oh yeah, and cameras facing the driver to make sure they're not "looking down" or other such similar crimes. Fully microphone'd and cameras in every direction. on board connected computers. GPS...

It's a 2 ton smartphone that can go 100 MPH. Oh good, now they can park themselves (steer, brake, accelerate, start, stop).

I think I better hang on to my 1998 MB E430 V8.

I've got a 2006 Mustang, with a 1966 Mustang as backup (will work after an EMP).

I also don't have a smart phone. My flip phone is OFF unless I'm making a call.

flashguy

February 25, 2020, 12:41 PM

stoic-one

quote:
My flip phone is OFF unless I'm making a call.

Might want to pull that battery when not in use.

February 25, 2020, 01:18 PM

tatortodd

quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
quote:
Originally posted by mark_a:
5G is going to blow the lid off automobile back channel communication.

Think of all the positives: Real time auto computer updates, no reason to issue a recall when you can just stick the latest bios flash in to the system.

Real time accident reporting: Just think how much faster law enforcement will be able to clear the scene of an accident. The video footage and all the vehicle telemetry will be available for a quick download. No since is blowing up the commute by closing roads.

On and on. Your car, which in the medium future will no longer be owned by you but part of a subscription plan you negotiate with the manufacturer, will be declared a public asset with no right to privacy.

The subscription plan will be incredibly attractive to most urban dwellers. Only need a car on weekends, that's all you pay for. Need a truck once a month for yard work, add that $125 option. Cities will shortly afterwards declare that only subscription based vehicles will be allowed in the city limits (commercial vehicles are exempt). Why do cities get a say? Because you will reduce congestion by a tremendous amount thereby saving the city a ton of money on building new roads.

We haven't touched on 5g enabling self driving cars...

Sounds nightmarish.

Agreed. I’m envisioning:

being broken down in a parking lot because of a bad computer upgrade or crappy cell service

some jackwad programmer forgetting to code to limit upgrade when parked and people crashing because upgrade occurs while driving.

car not working because of paid upgrade to new OS

February 25, 2020, 04:34 PM

46and2

Yup. ^

I'm likely 100% done with new/newer vehicles and bikes for the rest of my life.

I've no interest in a computer on wheels, much less one connected to some home server.

As a technology professional of many years now, I'm so over most of it it's crazy.

One of my bikes is a carbureted '06. I'm not sure I'll ever own any motor vehicle newer than that.

February 25, 2020, 06:39 PM

berto

quote:
Originally posted by tatortodd:
I’m envisioning:

being broken down in a parking lot because of a bad computer upgrade or crappy cell service

some jackwad programmer forgetting to code to limit upgrade when parked and people crashing because upgrade occurs while driving.

car not working because of paid upgrade to new OS

Already happening. Gig is a car share service. Lady in the Bay Area used one of their cars for a weekend road trip and went to an area with poor to zero cell reception. Turned off the car for the day and next day couldn't go anywhere because the car requires cell reception to work.

February 25, 2020, 08:20 PM

tatortodd

quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
Yup. ^

I'm likely 100% done with new/newer vehicles and bikes for the rest of my life.

I've no interest in a computer on wheels, much less one connected to some home server.

As a technology professional of many years now, I'm so over most of it it's crazy.

One of my bikes is a carbureted '06. I'm not sure I'll ever own any motor vehicle newer than that.

you can go newer than than that and I bet a fuel injected motorcycle is much better with elevation changes in Colorado than a carburetor (I know it is with snowmobiles). Basic fuel injection is more of a mini-PLC which is a stark contrast to the integrated infotainment and vehicle optimization computer linked to its Corporate nannies via cellular.