So, you won a marathon despite being half-carried across the finish line?
I'll withhold judgement until race officials make a determination.
Is Dr Self noted as the winner in official results? If so, the race director allowed the finish assistance. And yes, you've got to read the entire article to understand that Self received help in the last few steps.
Last Saturday, I paced my 20 year old son on his first marathon in Tucson (my 24th ). From mile 20 to the end, he wanted to walk, crawl, give up, sit down, run, jog etc. Many times I pulled his arm or got under his shoulder to get him moving. But he did finish on his own power. I knew we weren't competing for top finishers etc.
I've had a few finishes that I wasn't proud of (legs felt like concrete, lost my hearing or sense of bearing), but I finished. I don't think any race director gives a crap about participants getting some help, as long as they're not competing for prize money, points, etc. Race directors' prime concern is collecting registration fees.
P229
December 12, 2017, 09:58 AM
rscalzo
quote:
Not a very competitive race if someone can get helped 2 miles to the finish and "win".
Giving verbal encouragement for two miles isn't the same as carrying the runner.
This is far from the first time it happened. but according to the rules of the major sanctioning agencies, it is not permitted. Yet some races have allowed it to happen. although it was not for a win.
quote:
While some might perceive the runners who disapprove of giving official finishes to those who do it with aid as cold-hearted, these disapproving runners do have the rules on their side.
The Boston Marathon officially follows the rules set forth by the International Association of Athletic Federations (IAAF), USA Track and Field (USATF), and Abbot World Marathon Majors. The IAAF and USATF rules spell out that runners must finish a race under their own power in order to receive an official time or medal.
According to Boston spokesperson T.K. Skendrian, all runners must sign an agreement that they will abide by the rules set out by these organizations. However, he explains, “I think these governing bodies rely on race organizers to make the judgments on certain incidents,” he says. “We have not disqualified people in the past (for this infraction), but we’d look closely at each incident.”
Some other major marathons are likely to look the other way too. Just one week after Boston, another photo grabbed the public’s attention as Matthew Rees helped David Wyeth across the finish line of the London Marathon. Event director Hugh Brashner had this to say about the incident: “It’s a simple story of one person helping another in their moment of need. Neither runner was trying to win the race. The marathon, above all mass participation events, is grueling and involves determination, commitment, camaraderie and togetherness. Matthew’s gesture demonstrated this wonderfully.”
The ultra-running world, however, isn’t so accommodating. At the 2006 Western States 100, competitor Brian Morrison was within 300 meters of winning the race that year when he began stumbling and falling down. His official pacers—one of which was famed trail ultrarunner Scott Jurek—repeatedly helped him to his feet and got him across the line. “The race finishes in a stadium and the assistance was out in the open and very obvious,” says Western States race director Craig Thornley. “One of our rules is that you must finish under your own power, so we had no choice but to disqualify him.”
Originally posted by Russ59: I'll withhold judgement until race officials make a determination.
Is Dr Self noted as the winner in official results? If so, the race director allowed the finish assistance. And yes, you've got to read the entire article to understand that Self received help in the last few steps.
Last Saturday, I paced my 20 year old son on his first marathon in Tucson (my 24th ). From mile 20 to the end, he wanted to walk, crawl, give up, sit down, run, jog etc. Many times I pulled his arm or got under his shoulder to get him moving. But he did finish on his own power. I knew we weren't competing for top finishers etc.
I've had a few finishes that I wasn't proud of (legs felt like concrete, lost my hearing or sense of bearing), but I finished. I don't think any race director gives a crap about participants getting some help, as long as they're not competing for prize money, points, etc. Race directors' prime concern is collecting registration fees.
Self was indeed declared the winner, after some deliberation by officials. This race was not run under the authority of whatever sanctioning body governs marathons; therefore, they could choose to allow her to receive some assistance.
The second place finisher was apparently OK with giving Self the win.
The 17 YO girl was part of a “marathon relay team.” She was not competing with Self.
There are headlines screaming “Heroic Win.” I’ll buy heroic finish, “win” I’m struggling with.
Funny thing is, if you read the comments to HuffPo’s article, several people referred to the HS girl’s actions as “sportswomanship.” I thought there had been a 20 year + campaign to remove gender identifiers. Silly me
_______________________________________________________ despite them
December 12, 2017, 11:51 AM
Dallas239
The race committee gave Self the win. She "finished" two and a half minutes ahead of second, even with help. Supposedly receiving help from another competitor is a grey area, and no one protested. There's no real prize for winning this one, so I guess no one wanted to be the Grinch.
Locally, the story is more about Luterman, who is not only a great athlete, but also a good person. She has her own non-profit and runs to raise money for homeless kids.
"I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here." -- Ronald Reagan, Farewell Address, Jan. 11, 1989
Si vis pacem para bellum There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. Feeding Trolls Since 1995
Originally posted by Dallas239: The race committee gave Self the win. She "finished" two and a half minutes ahead of second, even with help. Supposedly receiving help from another competitor is a grey area, and no one protested. There's no real prize for winning this one...
I'll play the Grinch here. She could have completely collapsed, unable to move further. But, since she got the lift, we'll never know.
And, are you sure there are no prizes for winners? Dallas is a pretty big marathon. I remember when I did one many years ago (late 80s), when it was still the Dallas White Rock Marathon, there were winner prizes.
Q
December 12, 2017, 12:23 PM
Shaql
quote:
Originally posted by MNSIG: That's a totally bogus "win".
On a side note: When did it become popular for the general public to voluntarily attempt duplicating an event in which the original participant DIED? Until sometime in the 80s, I honestly don't remember anyone outside of gym class or military basic training running unless something was chasing them.
1896
Hedley Lamarr: Wait, wait, wait. I'm unarmed. Bart: Alright, we'll settle this like men, with our fists. Hedley Lamarr: Sorry, I just remembered . . . I am armed.
December 12, 2017, 12:41 PM
MNSIG
quote:
Originally posted by Shaql: 1896
I saw that 1897 was the first Boston Marathon. Further reading would suggest that it took about 3/4 of a century before running became mainstream. Thereafter, the growth in the sport can be tracked by the number of sports medicine clinics in operation.
December 12, 2017, 12:58 PM
Shaql
This is the first thing I thought of when I saw your question
Hedley Lamarr: Wait, wait, wait. I'm unarmed. Bart: Alright, we'll settle this like men, with our fists. Hedley Lamarr: Sorry, I just remembered . . . I am armed.
December 12, 2017, 01:37 PM
iron chef
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas239: The race committee gave Self the win. She "finished" two and a half minutes ahead of second, even with help. Supposedly receiving help from another competitor is a grey area, and no one protested. There's no real prize for winning this one...
I'll play the Grinch here. She could have completely collapsed, unable to move further. But, since she got the lift, we'll never know.
And, are you sure there are no prizes for winners? Dallas is a pretty big marathon. I remember when I did one many years ago (late 80s), when it was still the Dallas White Rock Marathon, there were winner prizes.
According to the following article, there was no prize money.
"I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965
December 12, 2017, 04:45 PM
Russ59
quote:
Originally posted by TMats:
Self was indeed declared the winner, after some deliberation by officials. This race was not run under the authority of whatever sanctioning body governs marathons; therefore, they could choose to allow her to receive some assistance.
The second place finisher was apparently OK with giving Self the win.
The 17 YO girl was part of a “marathon relay team.” She was not competing with Self.
There are headlines screaming “Heroic Win.” I’ll buy heroic finish, “win” I’m struggling with.
Funny thing is, if you read the comments to HuffPo’s article, several people referred to the HS girl’s actions as “sportswomanship.” I thought there had been a 20 year + campaign to remove gender identifiers. Silly me
Well, if the race director is good with it and the second place finisher is good with it, it's all good. And I assume the relay team is OK with Luterman sacrificing a few seconds off their finish time. Kudos to Luterman. I've encouraged many runners who were running/walking in the latter stages of a race.
Unaided, Self could have withered on the ground with a massive cramped muscle or passed out. Even 2.5 minutes behind, second place runner could have caught up.
This just goes to prove that runners are weird......really weird.
P229
December 12, 2017, 05:15 PM
Gustofer
Who in the hell thinks that this is a good thing to do to your body?
These people are batshit crazy.
________________________________________________________ It is long past time for a Convention of States. The Founding Fathers gave us this tool to fix an out of control government and we need to use it.
December 12, 2017, 07:05 PM
preten2b
Help getting up...ok, good. If she would not have crossed or placed in top positions without the help forward, I'd cry foul.
She should have done it on and by-her-own.....(wait for it) Self!
------------------ The plural of anecdote is not data. -Frank Kotsonis
December 12, 2017, 08:23 PM
John Steed
quote:
Originally posted by preten2b: Help getting up...ok, good. If she would not have crossed or placed in top positions without the help forward, I'd cry foul.
She should have done it on and by-her-own.....(wait for it) Self!
To claim the win under those conditions does seem rather, well, Self-ish.
... stirred anti-clockwise.
December 12, 2017, 08:28 PM
12131
quote:
Originally posted by John Steed:
quote:
Originally posted by preten2b: Help getting up...ok, good. If she would not have crossed or placed in top positions without the help forward, I'd cry foul.
She should have done it on and by-her-own.....(wait for it) Self!
To claim the win under those conditions does seem rather, well, Self-ish.
Oh, the irony. She should be embarrassed for accepting that trophy.
Q
December 12, 2017, 08:45 PM
amals
quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer: Who in the hell thinks that this is a good thing to do to your body?
These people are batshit crazy.
That's my (non-medical) opinion as well. Makes me queasy to think of all the weird things going on inside your body when you push it to exhaustion and beyond. No, thanks.
December 12, 2017, 11:04 PM
Strambo
quote:
Originally posted by amals:
quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer: Who in the hell thinks that this is a good thing to do to your body?
These people are batshit crazy.
That's my (non-medical) opinion as well. Makes me queasy to think of all the weird things going on inside your body when you push it to exhaustion and beyond. No, thanks.
This is true, anything taken to an extreme isn’t healthy. Cossfit competitions, marathons, bodybuilding, powerlifting. That is devoting oneself to it, dabbling and entering an amateur competition on occasion would be different.
“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik
Originally posted by preten2b: Help getting up...ok, good. If she would not have crossed or placed in top positions without the help forward, I'd cry foul.
She should have done it on and by-her-own.....(wait for it) Self!
It is hard to tell from the videos, but giving Self the benefit of the doubt, Luterman definitely helped her up a couple of times, but it's not clear how much help she's giving her moving forward other than stabilizing her. OTOH, I have seen runners get within 25 yards of a finish and not be able to cross it with any help short of a stretcher.
"I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here." -- Ronald Reagan, Farewell Address, Jan. 11, 1989
Si vis pacem para bellum There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. Feeding Trolls Since 1995
). From mile 20 to the end, he wanted to walk, crawl, give up, sit down, run, jog etc. Many times I pulled his arm or got under his shoulder to get him moving. But he did finish on his own power. I knew we weren't competing for top finishers etc.
