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Facts are stubborn things |
Repeat offenders never "pay their debt" because they don't feel they did any wrong. They are the evil that ends up in Hell. Someone who messed up, has remorse, serves their time, and gets out and stays on the right track, definitely paid their debt. Each individual is different. Unfortunately, we only hear about the first person. Do, Or do not. There is no try. | |||
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Member |
While they may not pay their debt while they are doing time they are serving as a deterrent to the less bold wannabes out there. _____________________ Be careful what you tolerate. You are teaching people how to treat you. | |||
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Member |
The premise of "paying a debt" is that the injured parties are made whole. Incarceration doesn't benefit society in any way except to remove a problem from the presence of society. It doesn't compensate, and doesn't fix, and certainly doesn't restore stolen property, lives, or injuries. It's punishment, not correction. | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
I can tell you about the second person. They serve no time. In a lot of states they no longer even have to request their felony be expunged. It’s automatic after 5 years. Like it never happened. They are free to go offend again because now they know how easy it is with no consequences. | |||
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Exceptional Circumstances |
Agreed ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ | |||
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Just because you can, doesn't mean you should |
Most, no. One thing that should be prioritized is that they become responsible and self supporting citizens. Very few are able to stay out of jail for long, much less be good citizens. ___________________________ Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible. | |||
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Experienced Slacker |
When they start coming out of one year sentences looking like Dachau survivors then I'll say yes. | |||
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Member |
There's a difference between paying a debt to society and being rehabilitated. I do believe some are truly rehabilitated and can become functional members of society. On the other hand look at all the repeat offenders. My only experiences with people I know who went to jail is 50/50. One of my best friend's cousins has been in and out of jail ever since he turned 18. The other was a mutual friend who had a drinking problem and it got to the point where he was sent to jail for a few months. When he came out he was a changed man for the better. | |||
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Big Stack |
Should be. But it doesn't seem to work that way any more, unfortunately.
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Member |
All paths in America lead to the almighty dollar. As long as crime proves very lucrative to a great many people, criminals will remain in control. As long as the good, honest and respectable remain very docile, Crime / criminals will rein. Free room , medical and board has not proven to be a deterant . Imprisonment should instead cost $450.00 per day, Either they can afford it, or their friends, family or coworkers can afford it. Or the prisoner just "goes away" Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency. Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first | |||
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quarter MOA visionary |
So the question is: Does the individual pay because he served a sentence or is the question because you agree with the particular sentence served? In reality once you serve the sentence your debt is paid regardless of the sentence. However, if you think it is too weak (and many are) then they have not? What if they are overcharged and over sentenced (this also happens) then do you get money back? | |||
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Internet Guru |
They aren't 'paying' shit. They are parasites on the public dime serving a punishment. | |||
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Member |
The problem that some of you don't recognize is that we are all potential 'felons'... no one is more than a heart beat away from prison if the powers that be choose..... We Pro Gun folks like to quote that when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.... with the initial interpretation that only the 'criminals' will still have guns and we 'law abiding citizens' will be defenseless.... what I read in that statement is there may come a time when most of us are the outlaws...... Government is a living organism made up of different support entities ..... its main function is to live, grow and become stronger... it does this by making the populace weaker.... My Native American Name: "Runs with Scissors" | |||
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Member |
How quickly people forget that part of punishment and deterrence is the stigma which is supposed to be associated conviction of an act so serious as to warrant the title "Felon." Historically, most felons were viewed as so vile that the crimes they committed resulted in capital punishment and horrible ones at that. Felons were frequently branded (literally) and forced to leave the community. When long term incarceration at penal institutions was created as an option in the 1800s for the purpose of "rehabilitation", we (society) may have taken a more enlightened path, but what about the stigma of being an "outlaw" and how society viewed those as being anti-social? As much as we claim that efforts to reform individuals helps prevent criminal behavior, the fact remains that crime prevention depends in large part on the quantifiable association with how much embarrassment, shame, and humiliation plays in keeping people from doing things that family, friends, employers, and neighbors find as unacceptable within their community. "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken." | |||
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Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
I'm all for second chances in most cases. What I have a problem with is that the current system, at least locally, dolls out 3rd, 5th, 10th, 15th chances, etc, with reckless abandon. There are people who we arrest on a monthly basis, and yet the prosecutor's office keeps cutting deals, judges keep sentencing the minimum, and they keep getting drastically reduced sentences of probation (even when they already have a long history of violating probation), or community corrections...so they're back out in the public continuing to do what they do. A few years back we had a guy shoot two people to death over a little bit of weed. The suspect was on probation at the time, had already been arrested twice during his term for separate offenses, and the courts kept letting him out on the street. If he'd been locked up like he should have been it never would have happened. Just one example of many, albeit with an extreme outcome. Just last night we had a vehicle then foot pursuit with a guy who's felony rap sheet is as long as my arm...we've dealt with him for years and most of the guys are on a first-name basis with him at this point. He pulled a gun on a guy then took off when we found him, endangering us and the public in the process. He showed absolutely no remorse after we caught him...the courts have obviously done a fantastic job of rehabilitating him over the years. And they'll keep giving him probation or short jail terms, and he'll keep doing what he does until he shoots some member of the public, one of us, or kills somebody on the road. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. And this is a predominantly rural, very conservative county. I can only imagine what the liberal courts in big cities are like. | |||
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Diablo Blanco |
Technically, once a sentence is served then there debt would be served provided the sentence was just. The premise behind a sentence is time to be served and we all know people rarely serve the time they are sentenced to serve. I think the question that I believe needs to be addressed is whether a sentence served is enough to restore a felon’s rights. Not all felonies are equal and not everyone who serves time is reformed. I personally believe that committing a felony should forfeit some rights and that a person should have the ability to petition for rights to be reinstated. It’s a very complex question without a simple answer. _________________________ "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last” - Winston Churchil | |||
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32nd degree |
I worked with a man who is a Certified Alcohol Counselor. Real mello fellow, wife ,2 children; runs a personal fitness gym on the side. does yoga, meditation, martial arts. Did time when he was younger 'cause his Latin temper got the best of him and he stuck a pistol in a womans' mouth and threatened to kill her. To see him interact with the addicts you'd never know it. ___________________ "the world doesn't end til yer dead, 'til then there's more beatin's in store, stand it like a man, and give some back" Al Swearengen | |||
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Muzzle flash aficionado |
If the felon serves a full sentence, then the "debt to Society" has been paid; however, the debt to the victim(s) will likely never be paid. Not all felonies are the same, and treatment of released felons should be based to a real degree on the nature of the felony and subsequent behavior of the felon. flashguy Texan by choice, not accident of birth | |||
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The Unmanned Writer |
They have "paid their debt" and at the same time as a result of their actions, they've also lost certain rights/privileges. Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it. "If dogs don't go to Heaven, I want to go where they go" Will Rogers The definition of the words we used, carry a meaning of their own... | |||
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bigger government = smaller citizen |
It’s a tough one. Felons carry their label forever, so how can we ever know if requiring X to pay for Y can be considered a debt payment? If a man steals X and society says he needs to pay Y years, and at the completion he is still not considered a free and potentially self-reliant man, where’s his incentive to rejoin society in ANY civilized capacity? My wife and I discuss this often and I waffle between yes and no. Of course I am not a felon and I am also not the victim of any felonious crime aside from someone emptying our apartment of valuables (including my P226) right after we got married. In that instance, if they had caught the kid or kids and locked them up as felons for a couple years, and at the completion the young men were given their whole lives back, I would have said, “Yes.” “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.”—H.L. Mencken | |||
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