Every so often, we talk about felons and prohibitory owning of firearms.

I do not want this thread to turn into a debate about the Second Amendment, or voting Rights.

I want to focus just on the topic of the idea that felons “pay their debt” in the sentences being handed down in 2020. Recently, a felon was arrested for his 22nd time in almost 7 years. During his various court appearances, he has been sentenced to about 50 years. Obviously, he hasn’t served anywhere near 50 years and he continues to offend.

He’s far from alone.

The topic turns to people turning to the subject of court, sentences, and the debt to society. My question is the simplistic premise. Do you think that felons are paying their debt?

Question:
Do you think the felons “pay their debt” to society in 2020?

Choices:
Yes,
No

 

Not even close. And the courts continue to release them early (if they even jail them at all), so society gets to keep being repeatedly victimized by the same people over and over again. At work, we encounter the same people over and over again...a huge percentage of crime could be prevented by simply keeping these mopes locked up for stuff they've already been convicted for.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 92fstech,

I would lean towards 'pay their debt to society' HOWEVER, how many cases, where the perpetrators actually serves a full-sentence?

You always hear of a guy convicted of say, assault, gets sentenced to 10-15 but, gets out after 5....WTF? Not sure that's paying the debt but, merely a stop-gap measure to address 'over-crowding'. The post-prison program and probationary period is full of fail as recidivism-rates are high, thus the individual has a high likelihood of returning to prison for another felony.

NO. Many things done to other people by felons, can never be reversed. Family members murdered, family heirlooms stolen and never found, people tramatized that will never be the same are just some of the things I can think of. Not to mention us tax payers are footing their bill when they're in jail.

I am focusing my response specific to 2020 since that was your focus. Sadly, during these COVID times there are a lot of people being released from jails who should not be, or getting off easy and not doing jail time. So no, many people are not paying for their consequences during these crazy times.

It kind of depends on what the felony is. Most of the felonies that that I can think of there’s no possible explanation, rehabilitation or cure such as a child molester.

No. Today it seems people think society somehow failed the felon and society owes them something for their crimes.

Like the pie is only so big and for someone to succeed they had to take it from someone else.

No, but I’m biased...(retired cop)by the time they actually get a felony conviction they have committed so much other crime it’s unbelievable...but you know that.

We used to have a solution.

Steal a mans horse, short drop. Zero percent recidivism.

Rape, same answer.

Think about it.... a horse in 1860 was worth more than a years earning...basically same for a car now days....but the courts have become so soft over the intervening decades (due to liberals) that no one pays a debt to society...by the time you get real jail term you have committed serious crimes and gotten away with it for so long that jail or prison is no longer a threat.

I remember one guy telling me that he was hoping for prison time because jail didn’t allow smoking....think about that....

It goes both ways. I've seen judges totally ignore sentencing guidelines and mandate sentences contrary to law. It costs 50 to 100k to bring an appeal. As a result, some inmate spend decades longer in prison than the law requires.

No. Even before Covid, sentences were too light and never fully served.

I'll take up the unpopular response.

IMHO,the question is too broad to be a simple yes/no answer to the survey. Not all felonies (or misdemeanors)are created equal. Some are worse than others.

Someone with 22 priors over the last 7 years is different than adjudicating a first time felon and having him/her serve their sentence and/or paying their debt to society (whatever that means).

I'd also be interested in the definition of 'pay their debt to society' as it may mean different things to folks. Lots of things can go into the 'debt' bucket.

Some do. Others don't. So, the answer is both yes and no.

No. And I'm afraid it's going to get much worse with the liberal bent this country is on.

I think the right answer is "sometimes"
What about an 18 year old that got ambitious and grows a little pot and sells some to a friend? Say about 1968. He gets a felony rap and never commits another crime. It is now 2020 and pot has been legalized in his state. But there are a whole lot of jobs and opportunities his has missed over his lifetime. Has he paid his debt? Or did he ever have a debt? What about someone that lives in a state that passes some kind of "assault weapon" or magazine ban? Some of the laws proposed last year in the VA. Legislature would have changed me from a retired Ironworker who has worked all around Washington D.C. all his life and has had a bunch of different security clearances too a felon that was worse the a guy with a house full of heroin. So I think there is a lot of room for debate in your question.

I can say as a crime victim that they don't do shit to the perpetrator, even when caught with rock solid evidence.

I am biased, because I saw the system in action.
That said:
Violent crime, sexual offenses, felony level domestic violence, stalking, vehicular homicide, felony level theft / fraud and felony OMVI offenders that are found or plead guilty should do every day of that sentence.
Misdemeanor assault, OMVI and domestic violence also should do every day of the sentence.
Other misdemeanors can have flexible sentencing.
After release, felons should be on parole for 10 years. Violate parole and its back to jail, 5 years minimum.
And I have no problem with "3 strikes" laws either.
We need to target hard core repeat offenders.
As far a repayment of a debt to society, I think most victims of serious violent crime would say there is no such thing as repayment.

Strong maybe. Habitual career criminal is a different case than people who maybe had a lapse in judgment and committed a white collar crime. Or somebody who doesn’t normally drink and drive gets wasted and then drives drunk and kills a family. I think some people like that are really remorseful and can get back out and lead a relatively normal life and I wouldn’t feel concerned about then as my neighbor.

Depends on the felony but I’d say generally no. We can debate felonies like theft and burglary and what would be an appropriate sentence. And assuming they serve that sentence, the felon will have been removed from society and stripped of his freedoms for a period. But did he pay a debt? Not really. Who pays for the lost goods? The loss of “feelings of safety” and the feeling of paranoia about repeat occurrences to those victimized?

Violent felons? Let us assume murder. How would the felon pay this debt? Financially in terms of potential earned income? Valuable time in life lessons and experiences passed on, sharing and living life together, etc. Even if the murderer is executed, these debts aren’t paid. Life in prison? He’s stripped of his freedoms but still the vacuum left behind the victim isn’t filled. And in fact he continues to increase his debt as he lives at society’s expense without any constructive contributions back. The felon isn’t contributing do he’s not paying anything.

So no, I don’t think felons pay their debt as a whole. Parity at best, likely less, for lessor crimes. And not at all for worse.

Punished is not the same as paying back their debt.

I'm retired from the Dept of Corrections. That name is incorrect, because they don't correct anything. From what I've observed over the years, very few of them will ever amount to anything as long as they have a hole in their ass.

I don't think of criminal punishment as paying a debt to society. I see it as criminals make themselves a problem that needs to be managed, and that being convicted of a crime gives the government the right to do what is necessary to manage that problem.

Criminal sentences serve multiple purposes these include protection of society, punishment and, where possible, rehabilitation. It's that the criminal "owes" society a "debt" for committing a crime. It's that society has a right to protect itself from the actions of the criminal, and try to change the attitude of the criminal to prevent that person from committing further crimes.