The Ford EV truck thread got me thinking about a conversation I had with a friend earlier this year. I've always thought his 2006 Prius was a neat car, and it is, but he said when the battery pack needed replacing a while back, the cost wiped out any fuel savings that had built up over the years.

I don't remember exactly how many years it's been since battery replacement, or how many miles were on the Prius at the time (although it had been on a number of long trips in addition to the usual around town travel), but I thought that was a really disappointing result and am thinking why bother if it's all a wash in the long-term?

To clarify my friend's ability to calculate such things as cost analysis, he made it through the rigorous mechanical engineering program at Georgia Tech and has been working as an engineer (design and actual application/implementation) since graduating in 1989.

At this point, my friend is the only person I know well that has a hybrid/EV and is a sample of one. Is there anyone here that has been through battery replacement for these types of vehicles and, if so, what was your cost-benefit calculation regarding overall savings?

If the cost-benefit calculation turns out to be absurd, is it required to replace a failed hybrid’s battery or can you operate the vehicle as a gasoline-only vehicle and just disconnect and ignore the failed battery?

Looking at a hybrid myself currently. So been researching the same question.
Toyota has a 10 year 150k warranty on all hybrid components so you get a very long time out of them. Keep the vents clear and clean the batteries (at least Toyota) last far longer than that.

We are looking at Highlanders so these are Highlander numbers. For batteries installed yourself which is a pretty easy and straight forward process so can easily do it myself.
There are other things to factor in as well in some cases. I don’t want a newer, unproven small displacement turbo motor for our vehicle. That is all that is available in the Grand Highlander anymore aside from the hybrid. So there is that part of the equation as well.

New Toyota battery is $4,000 not sure if it carries their standard 1 year parts warranty or something different.

New aftermarket battery $3,400 with 4 year warranty

Remanufactured battery $2,400 with 1-2 year warranty based upon were purchased.

So based upon those things and the gas cost savings we will gain over our current Suburban. I am not concerned even if I do end up having to replace a battery.

Black - appreciate the input but those are forecasted numbers, which are necessary to calculate, and may or may not be accurate when the time for replacement comes along.

What I'm asking for actual data/experience for cost, years in service, mileage, etc.

In my opinion you're approaching it from the wrong direction and you should be looking at forecast not historical numbers. With the advances in batteries and lowering of cost means data from 5 or 10 years ago wouldn't be very relevant in 5 or 10 years.

Forecasts numbers are fairy dust and unicorn farts, as far as I’m concerned. Do you know what inflation will be over 5-10 years from now? What the price of EV/hybrid batteries will be when the federal government forces new car buyers into purchasing EVs? How hard will it be, or even possible for anyone to do it themselves, as a lot of regular vehicle batteries now have chips imbedded in them so the car won’t work with them unless the dealership authorizes them. Oh, and improved batteries are always being touted, but never seem to show up in the marketplace.

The OP should go with history, not forecasts.

My EV is coming up on 10 years old. I’ve looked at replacing the batteries, not because they need it, but because I’m trying to move rural and will need more range. To go from 84 mile range to 215, it’s about 10k with labor. I was leaning that way but recently I’ve figured out that I can go a newer version of my car, a 2022, with maybe 8-10k on the ODO for around 24k with a 240 mile range. Mine is worth maybe 8k. So I can either spend 10k on a 10 year old car or upgrade to a 2022 for 16k. I’d just upgrade.

A friend in Maui had to replace his Prius battery. He paid around 2k for this IIRC.

And while EV’s make all the news the vehicles that catch on fire the most per 100k vehicles are hybrids. Followed by gas, with electric being the least. Sensational journalism as always.

How many miles do you have on your EV?

Are hybrids the most likely because they have the fire capability of both styles so they add together or is there another explanation.

Those fire numbers though seem misleading. The true fear of a car fire with an EV is that it is really hard to put out. The other issue is that while no one wants your car to burn down to the tires, it is a big difference in the WHERE. A car fire on the side of the road sucks. You lose your car, you end up on the news, you might become a meme. If your car burns up in the garage, everybody and everything you know/own could be gone.

I would love to see that breakdown. How many ICE cars catch on fire overnight in the garage? I of course am assuming that at least some of these EV fires are during charging. A cold ICE vehicle sitting in the garage rarely just catches on fire right? Most ICE fires are cars running, fuel lines leaking, hot, hot, hot stuff combining in fiery ways. Not sitting in your garage cold to the touch at 3 am. Curious if I’m on the right path.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
A cold ICE vehicle sitting in the garage rarely just catches on fire right? Most ICE fires are cars running, fuel lines leaking, hot, hot, hot stuff combining in fiery ways.

Well, my sister had a Dodge Omni in the 1990s with a stick shift that had to be parked in gear. One night, the ignition switch shorted out. The car was parked in the driveway, but the starter backed the car into the house and the car and the house caught on fire. No one was injured but the house was quite badly damaged.

So you just never know.

Not trying to be a smartass but I guess I’m wondering if cold ICE vehicles that aren’t a 30 year old POS that “has to be parked in gear” catch on fire?

The point is ICE vehicles usually catch on fire when they are being operated, not while they are sitting in the garage cold. EV can catch fire while cold because of charging considerations and the huge potential energy of the battery at all times. A gas tank has the potential but very little catalyst to just catch on fire.

This is the classic misapplication of statistics. ICE vehicles catch fire more than EV. True. If EV fires are more likely than ICE to start when the car is garaged though that is way more dangerous. I have never even considered that a cold vehicle in my garage would ever spontaneously ignite. I say this because I have never heard of it happening except for 1994 Dodge Omnis. Lol

EV “appearing” to go up in flames under charging or a short is what I am asking. Which cars are more likely to catch fire in a garage scenario? An EV being charged or just sitting there or ICE sitting cold? Because a car fire is way more dangerous if it catches your house on fire as well.

This probably won't add much value to the conversation, but battery technology has changed exponentially over the past 10-20 years and keeps getting better. I use to manage a big energy program and we had "some" batteries, like megawatt scale that were being tested in different environments for various missions. Prices have come down very significantly, but IMHO, still cost too much for Joe Average to spend his money on unless there is a special circumstance such as you pay stupid high utility rates (California) or live out in BFE with little to no alternative.

I'm very interested in what replacement batteries cost for EV's and Hybrids and if the juice is worth the squeeze or if most of us should just stick to good old fossil fuel vehicles. At the end of the day its a numbers game and the cheapest alternative wins. With the increased cost of initial investment in EV's over fossil fuel I'd rather take the risk with old tech. If I did take the jump it would be with a Hybrid hands down. Especially since our electrical grid cannot handle massive amounts of EV's pulling down power. That is just a fact.

quote:

This probably won't add much value to the conversation, but battery technology has changed exponentially over the past 10-20 years and keeps getting better.

This could also prove to be a problem for older EV's in that tech advances sometimes obsolete older chassis in every aspect of digitally operated life.

Corporations build in obsolescence in order to move new products. iPhones/iPads after a few years cannot upload the new IOS which means all the apps, especially popular ones, will not load, so you need a new one.

Computers won't run older operating systems, Windows stops updating and supporting older versions, so it follows that Toyota will at some point stop making battery systems for older Prius models, as will all manufacturers, think most only keep making parts for cars up to 10 years, after that you are buying NOS from inventory, but the parts are not being produced unless they are still used on newer vehicles such as a ball joint, alternator, belt, light bulbs.

Technology will improve the battery and the way they interface with vehicles, at some point your 10 year old vehicle may not be capable of a replacement for that reason, and, who knows what government regulations will come out regulating battery replacement and disposal methods, including fees for disposal of replaced units that could wipe out savings.

Technology may eliminate a lot of these problems in the future, but for now, EV's will have a limited life span because the main propulsion system has a limited life, from use and replacement options down the road in 10 years.

no experience, first hand, but will be buing a new SUV soon and have considered hybrids,


however, a guy I worked with a few years ago was in the market for a older prius,

seems , according to him, Toyota's are one that you do not have to replace the entire battery pack, you can just replace cells, at a significant savings,

not sure if he every got one,

quote:

seems , according to him, Toyota's are one that you do not have to replace the entire battery pack, you can just replace cells, at a significant savings,

That is true, if you have every watched Tyler Hoovers videos, he buys hoopties and then fixes and sells them or takes a hit, funny guy, makes a lot of utoob money off his videos.

Skip to 4 min mark if you just want to watch the battery replacement.

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:
no experience, first hand, but will be buing a new SUV soon and have considered hybrids,


however, a guy I worked with a few years ago was in the market for a older prius,

seems , according to him, Toyota's are one that you do not have to replace the entire battery pack, you can just replace cells, at a significant savings,

not sure if he every got one,

Yes rebuild kits are available. But not all that much of a cost savings.
Especially if some other cells decide to die and I have to rip it all apart again.