Tl;dr: Can existing Cat5 wiring be used to pull new wiring through walls? Two story house, pre-existing wirings. No conduit as far as I can tell.


House was built in 1999. WiFi is shit in this house--it's too spread out and built in a U shape around a central courtyard. Too many rooms, too many mirrored closet doors in the bedrooms, and too many full sized mirrors in the bathrooms (for those of you who don't know, metal plating used to make mirrors are very good at blocking Wifi).

I tried going with a multipoint mesh WiFi system (look for it on the classifieds soon), but some of these rooms are so thoroughly barricaded by RF reflective material that I can't get the wireless backhauls to connect reliably. What I need is to get a wired backhaul to link two access points or mesh routers together to get on either side of the barricades.

The problem, however, is that this house was wired in 1999 with CAT5. I would like to upgrade to Cat5e (or, since I'm already upgrading, Cat6). Would it be a simple thing to use the old wiring as the "fish tape" and just pull the new wiring through using the old wiring? The house is 2 stories with an attic. Presumptively the wiring all leads up to the attic and over to the master bedroom closet where the distribution box is.

Thanks in advance, all.

Hard to say, several variables.

Wiring may be stapled to the studs. Game ender.

Wiring most likely turns corners in various places. Makes life harder.

Wiring may run through holes in studs and plates. Depending on the size of the hole in relation to the size of the wire, that will make things either difficult or impossible.

Even best case, the wiring is likely to get tangled up in the insulation which situation is made worse by the size of the splice where you attach the new cable to the old.

Finally, it may be something of a challenge to match the wire at the wall outlet to the wire(s) in the attic.

Not a job I'd look forward to for sure.

quote:

Would it be a simple thing to use the old wiring as the "fish tape" and just pull the new wiring through using the old wiring?

Basically > YES.
This how I would do it.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
Hard to say, several variables.

Wiring may be stapled to the studs. Game ender.

Wiring most likely turns corners in various places. Makes life harder.

Wiring may run through holes in studs and plates. Depending on the size of the hole in relation to the size of the wire, that will make things either difficult or impossible.

Even best case, the wiring is likely to get tangled up in the insulation which situation is made worse by the size of the splice where you attach the new cable to the old.

Finally, it may be something of a challenge to match the wire at the wall outlet to the wire(s) in the attic.

Not a job I'd look forward to for sure.

Sigh. FML.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Would it be a simple thing to use the old wiring as the "fish tape" and just pull the new wiring through using the old wiring?

Basically > YES.
This how I would do it.

Encouraging.

I have a 30ft endoscope. I'll run it up one of the walls to see wassup.

Blind? Not good, it's likely stapled to joists at least.

Also... Why? It's the same copper in both types. Same gauge, same pairs twisted... The only difference is the care taken with bundling those 4 pairs and the care in termination.

Bends, kinks, etc cause signal loss, so cable itself goes from cat 5: keep the pairs twisted and at least whole, through 5e keep the pairs twisted and held tight and regular, to 6 that has extra structure in the insulator and a spacer down the middle to also keep the pairs in a regular twist.

Termination goes from 5, eh we just need 2 pair who cares which, through 5e I want all them pairs, to 6 with exact termination detwist length specifications.

I guarantee, you just carefully reterminate what's in your walls already and if you don't have conductors broken in sharp bends or over zealous stapling, you'll have 1000.

There's no way you are going to use the existing wire to pull new wire through multiple walls without going into the attic. You might be able to use the existing wire in each wall to pull new wire from the attic through the top plate and any barriers in the walls to the existing outlet provided the old wire isn't stapled.

Personally, I'd hire someone. For $600 for materials and labor, the company I bought my alarm and camera system from ran Cat 5e for 8 cameras and 2 WAPs, coax for cable in three rooms, speaker wires for 2 rear speakers and sub. I chuckled when I saw what they were going to charge and the sales asked if I thought it was too much. I said it seemed fair while trying to keep a straight face. It took two guys 16 hours to get it done. My attic is 4' high at the peek and an absolute miserable place to try and get around.

Like others have noted, if the wires from the original install were stapled to the studs, you're done. I pulled CAT6 through my home last year using a set of Glow Rods and it was pretty easy. I drilled new holes in the top plates a bay away from all electrical wiring for the CAT cable and it was a fairly simple install using the Glow Rods.

Have you looked at using powerline adapters? I use them with great success at our home. I have excellent wifi in my metal clad shop with is a 100' away from the house.

Right, so things on my list to do:

- Re-terminate a pair of connectors and see if that gets me close to 1000mbps.

- Investigate powerline adapters.

- Get up in the attic and see if dropping new lines makes any sense. (I own glow rods and fish tape, already).

- Run an endoscope down a wall from the attic to see if there are obstructions.

You are a busy bee Aeteocles!

Im not sure if u have basments in CA but my home from the 70s was easy to do with old work boxes and run thru the studs/joists. Unfinished basement of course.

Wasn't easy for me. House built in 1945, gutted and rebuilt in 2005. Wasn't that the cables were stapled but there were twists and turns around and through 2x4s in the wall. Ended up knocking some drywall out to complete the Cat5 > Cat6 in one room.

In the attic, I could see the the cable coming up from inside the walls below and up through the attic insulation. There was no insulation in the walls below the attic. I was able to adapter connect the end of the Cat6 to the end of the existing Cat5 at the room outlet and pull it up through the wall and into the attic on all but the one room.

Something you might try. There's usually plenty of cable in the attic ... disconnect the Cat5 down at the room outlet and pull on it. Does it pull freely, if so, it isn't stapled in the wall and likely no hang ups. Should be easy enough to pull the cable back up into the attic if need be.

There is no sure way of knowing, until you pull the cable. More than likely, you want be able to just tie on the old cable and use it to pull the new in.

Have you thought about putting in Cat 6A cable instead of Cat 6? Cat 6A is now the "latest and greatest". You don't want to spend the time, money, and aggravation now, just to come back and re do it in a couple of years.

PHPaul nailed it in the second post and your problem will be where the vertical run transitions to horizontal. If the cable was installed before the walls went up, the holes drilled through studs will be slightly larger than the cable and using the original wire as a fish works in theory, may work in practice, but will bind up at the transition and you won't be able to maintain the bend radius (the bend radius should be larger than four times the outer diameter of the cable). Stretched, tight cable does not perform to spec.

If patch panel is in basement
and basement is unfinished
and you can see the wires to the point where they go vertical
and the wires go through internal walls and terminate directly into the jack
then you are likely good to go
else follow trapper189's advice, get a pro. If you get a pro, demand they include a test of every cable with the results documented in a report.

However, before any of that. You are going to buy the same network gear regardless of cabling. Buy it now, install it on the Cat 5 and speed test. It may not be Gigabit Ethernet speed but it may be damn close which is fine for normal residential use.

A FAQ from LANshack:
Q: I have standard Category 5 cable installed in my office. 1) Will I be able to upgrade to 100 Mbps or higher? 2) Will it help to use a higher-grade patch cable?
A:If the Category 5 system was properly installed, upgrading to 100 Mbps should not be a problem. Category 5 cable may even be able to run Gigabit Ethernet (1000 Mbps), however Category 5e is recommended for speeds above 100 Mbps. As for using a higher-grade patch cable, it can only help and cannot hurt. The weakest part of any network channel is typically the patch cable. I suggest that anyone responsible for a network should use the highest-grade patch cable available.
https://www.lanshack.com/cat5e-tutorial.aspx

My only suggestion is to make sure you run some mule tape along with the CAT6. If you needed to change the wiring once, you may need to do it again. That mule tape will help make the next pull easier.

My experience as a home builder is what lines up with what PHPaul said. The low volt wires are likely stapled to the studs. Every home I've built, that's how it was, and it's been dozens of homes.

I just did a remodel. After thinking about it, I just bought a bunch of CAT 7 premade cable and installed it.

Overall it saved money and time.

No time was spent putting on ends and testing cable.

Some needed to be snaked through the walls and other places it was open.

I am getting as much speed as the router and cable connection puts out measured at the ONT.

My speed loss due to the wire is minimal.

It should be ready for the next ISP speed upgrade.

I didn't staple on purpose to have some future movement if needed

Others have already addressed pulling the cables.

For considerations on running new lines-

In my last two houses I was able to run small conduit from the basement to the attic, requiring cutting two holes in the drywall per floor either in closets or behind baseboard making the drywall repair easier to hide. In one case I followed existing whole house vacuum lines, in the other I followed the main HVAC return. Following something existing made the process much easier. In my present house I ran 2 cat6 cables and installed 2 Cisco WAPs configured in a mesh topology going back to my router to give me the WiFi coverage I needed. In the previous house I ran homeruns to critical rooms. You can also run a 10Ge trunk line to a switch and then go out from there if you don’t have a lot of room going up. Personally I would rather put in conduit and fish the lines up than try and fish blind behind the walls.

Don’t know what speed you ultimately need/want, but how is the coax presence in your trouble spot areas? Would MoCA be an option?

Crawlspace? If I was set on this, it would be all vertical if possible, even if it meant removing drywall in one spot at the distribution box on all floors. Drops from the attic, one new run to the crawlspace then route to the lower rooms.