Need electrician advice, hooking a portable generator up to the house.
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Originally posted by jeep olllllo:
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Originally posted by parabellum:
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Originally posted by jeep olllllo: Lots of nervous people here. I find it interesting to find it on a Sig website of all places. For those not in the know, Sigs two most popular guns are the 226 and 229. They do not have a safety on them. How are you going to responsibly own/carry a Sig while there are other manufacturers out there who have guns with a frame/slide mounted thumb safety. That gun could go off and hurt someone!!!!!!
It's not even noon and I know that that's the stupidest shit I'm going to hear all day long. Congratulations.
Classy post.
IBTL.
_____________________________ 'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'.
July 05, 2018, 12:16 PM
radioman
quote:
Originally posted by jeep olllllo:
2. You leave main on while your generator is running and then the power from the utility comes back on. Now everything in your home is getting twice the voltage/power it is designed to get. Long story short, just about every appliance in your home that is running will need to be replaced.
So much fail. Please stop giving electrical advice.
.
July 05, 2018, 12:27 PM
Balzé Halzé
quote:
Originally posted by radioman:
quote:
Originally posted by jeep olllllo:
2. You leave main on while your generator is running and then the power from the utility comes back on. Now everything in your home is getting twice the voltage/power it is designed to get. Long story short, just about every appliance in your home that is running will need to be replaced.
So much fail. Please stop giving electrical advice.
This.
Goodness.
~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country
Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan
July 05, 2018, 12:45 PM
tigereye313
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Originally posted by jeep olllllo: Classy post.
July 05, 2018, 01:04 PM
ffips
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Originally posted by jeep olllllo: I work for an electrical parts supplier.
Originally posted by jeep olllllo: Lots of nervous people here. I find it interesting to find it on a Sig website of all places. For those not in the know, Sigs two most popular guns are the 226 and 229. They do not have a safety on them. How are you going to responsibly own/carry a Sig while there are other manufacturers out there who have guns with a frame/slide mounted thumb safety. That gun could go off and hurt someone!!!!!!
It's not even noon and I know that that's the stupidest shit I'm going to hear all day long. Congratulations.
Classy post.
Not sure which reply was stupider? First one or second one, but the two quoted together should earn you some kind of prize.
Hell all that generator stuff is really expensive and inconvenient. Maybe he should just buy a gen cord and dryer cord. Cut off ends and wirenut dryer plug on to gen cord. Plug that bad boy into the dryer neighbors, linesmen, and clean up crews be damned. He probably doesn't like his neighbors and those linemen know their job is risky.
Please stop giving advice, you've made it abundantly clear that you are not qualified to do so.
Jesse
Sic Semper Tyrannis
July 05, 2018, 04:47 PM
Georgeair
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Originally posted by Skins2881:
Who knew you were an electrician AND a fine craftsman? Nice!
You only have integrity once. - imprezaguy02
July 06, 2018, 09:12 AM
henryaz
A neighbor who is a "trouble man" (advanced lineman) for APS stopped by yesterday to hand over some free cantaloupe (yum). We got to discussing hooking up generators, and specifically backfeed. Although backfeed is dangerous to those working on a line, he also mentioned that it only lasts for a split second. As soon as your generator starts trying to feed the neighborhood, it goes poof (too much load for the genset, and it shuts itself down).
July 06, 2018, 09:25 AM
Skins2881
^^^ correct.
Imagine though being the lineman that just confirmed it's dead seconds before you start it and poor timing has lineman in contact during that brief period. Also doesn't account for down lines, the entire neighborhood may not be connected, maybe a house or two only.
Bottom line, do it right.
Back to OP, did you have a chance to look at links? Do you want to run generator closer to panel or disconnect? Can you easily get wiring to basement for ten space or custom made manual transfer switch?
Jesse
Sic Semper Tyrannis
July 06, 2018, 10:47 AM
henryaz
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Originally posted by Skins2881: ^^^ correct. Bottom line, do it right.
Of course, I didn't mean anything but that, but I thought that was an interesting side note. My transfer switch is a DPDT, which connects either utility power, or genset power to the main breaker in the main panel.
July 06, 2018, 10:52 AM
Skins2881
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Originally posted by henryaz:
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Originally posted by Skins2881: ^^^ correct. Bottom line, do it right.
Of course, I didn't mean anything but that, but I thought that was an interesting side note. My transfer switch is a DPDT, which connects either utility power, or genset power to the main breaker in the main panel.
Not saying you'd do it wrong, just adding on to your comment. Your set up is probably what I'd recommend for him. It is an expensive box and install which will require permit, but it would avoid drywall damage in basement so the higher electrical costs will be washed out when you factor in drywall and paint.
Hopefully he can find a interlock that will work with his disconnect, that would be best. Thrown in breaker, inlet box, and interlock. Done in one hour at minimal cost.
Jesse
Sic Semper Tyrannis
July 06, 2018, 11:50 AM
blusmoke
I have my genset wired to be back fed through my service panel to a 50a Breaker. I also installed an interlock kit. Super easy, can not backfeed the lines. I actually prefer to choose the circuits I wish to power. We have been without power here for up to 16 days (during Sandy). No issues, no worries. This was the most reasonable way to get the genset power to code in my house. Overall I am pleased with the function of the setup. The interlock folks were helpful during the research and pre purchase phase. If I had a stand alone genset I would do the transfer switch. Since mine is a big portable, (Honda 10k) I have no issues with the lock out kit
July 06, 2018, 12:06 PM
henryaz
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Originally posted by Skins2881: Not saying you'd do it wrong, just adding on to your comment. Your set up is probably what I'd recommend for him. It is an expensive box and install which will require permit
My GE 200 amp transfer cost about $1k back in 2004 (no permit needed here, back then). It lights up the entire panel, but with only a 20k genset, I obviously cannot run the whole house. I have several non-essential breakers marked to turn off when on genset power, such as oven/range, washer/dryer, dishwasher, welder, air compressor, and I turn off all AC except for the two bedrooms. That way, we can stay cool, run just about everything else, and the wife won't accidentally fire up something that is not really needed during an emergeny outage.
July 06, 2018, 05:19 PM
radioman
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
Imagine though being the lineman that just confirmed it's dead seconds before you start it and poor timing has lineman in contact during that brief period. Also doesn't account for down lines, the entire neighborhood may not be connected, maybe a house or two only.
Yup, and if your generator is back-fed through a transformer, the poor lineman could be subject to thousands of volts. Way higher voltage than what the generator originally generated.
If a lineman ever finds backfeed, they will find the source, and disconnect that customer premise for a long time. That customer will be without power long after his neighbors are restored.
.
July 06, 2018, 06:01 PM
thumperfbc
Skins, if you could confirm or deny my understanding I’d appreciate it...
If I wanted the option of powering up my entire panel all that one needs to do it safely is:
1) Generator 2) cable from Gen to panel 3) proper plug at panel 4) proper breaker (sized to match gen?) in panel 5) interlock (which from the links I saw is just a device that allows either the main power switch OR the generator inlet breaker in the panel to be on, but not both?
That seems pretty easy and inexpensive. The only wiring involved is mounting the inlet box and wiring that plug to the new breaker, right?
What has been suggested by one other (and not supported by anyone else) is essentially the same thing but without the interlock (which se could call a lockout of sorts) right?
Or do I need to read the thread again?
July 06, 2018, 08:57 PM
Skins2881
quote:
Originally posted by thumperfbc: Skins, if you could confirm or deny my understanding I’d appreciate it...
If I wanted the option of powering up my entire panel all that one needs to do it safely is:
1) Generator 2) cable from Gen to panel 3) proper plug at panel 4) proper breaker (sized to match gen?) in panel 5) interlock (which from the links I saw is just a device that allows either the main power switch OR the generator inlet breaker in the panel to be on, but not both?
That seems pretty easy and inexpensive. The only wiring involved is mounting the inlet box and wiring that plug to the new breaker, right?
What has been suggested by one other (and not supported by anyone else) is essentially the same thing but without the interlock (which se could call a lockout of sorts) right?
Or do I need to read the thread again?
For standard install you are correct, except you would normally install inlet box (male plug) on exterior wall so you don't need to leave window or door open to get the cord inside to panel. It's pretty simple.
For a 'standard' install we charge $895 or $995 (can't recall which at the moment.
This includes installing inlet box in close proximity to meter/panel. A pre-wired manual transfer switch or interlock, 25' gen cord, breaker, inlet box, and labor. Only takes a couple hours to do. If you get permit we tack on $250 to that. If you want inlet box wiring fished across the house we tack on time and additional wire to that.
I live in richest in richest county in America and work in top five of ten richest counties in the US, so our prices may be higher than in some areas, but probably similar to CA pricing.
Jesse
Sic Semper Tyrannis
July 06, 2018, 10:52 PM
thumperfbc
Thank you Skins. My panel is outside too (about even behind the fence, sadly. I would like the input plug at least 10 feet away from the panel so the generator can be behind the fence, though. I can run the wire inside the garage (after punching through the wall) to get back to the panel.
It seems pretty straight forward. We don’t get much in the way of power outages out here in the middle of CA as our weather is very mild but that just means when it happens it’ll be that much worse with absolutely nobody prepared to deal with it.
Seems that a DYI person could be completely set-up for under $1000 including a generator.
July 06, 2018, 11:57 PM
sigcrazy7
A lineman who values life will always ground both sides of the job. Getting electrocuted from a backfeed is a result of hurried/sloppy work. In this day of homeowners generating their own power from solar/wind and then selling the excess to the grid, you should always assume a power source downstream of the grid supply.
Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus
July 07, 2018, 12:02 AM
radioman
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Originally posted by sigcrazy7: In this day of homeowners generating their own power from solar/wind and then selling the excess to the grid, you should always assume a power source downstream of the grid supply.
Solar systems go dead when the mains are gone. Seems odd, but they just collect dust during an outage.
.
July 07, 2018, 12:11 AM
sigcrazy7
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Originally posted by radioman:
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Originally posted by sigcrazy7: In this day of homeowners generating their own power from solar/wind and then selling the excess to the grid, you should always assume a power source downstream of the grid supply.
Solar systems go dead when the mains are gone. Seems odd, but they just collect dust during an outage.
I guess I don’t know much about solar. I used to have an aquantance who had a windmill that powered his and his dad’s house, and he sold power to the grid constantly. This was in the late 80’s. Perhaps new installs require interlocks that automatically trip when the grid fails?
Kinda makes solar useless as an alternate power source.
Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus
