I was unfortunate in the fact that I got a staph infection / MSSA they entered my blood stream in my elbow and recently had to be admitted for surgery via the ER. The first thing they wanted after my symptoms was my insurance information, which I obviously provided to them. The ER was packed. I bet you 80 to 90% were non-English speakers. At least they weren’t speaking English amongst themselves and they weren’t speaking to the nurses and medical in the back behind the curtains. I obviously wasn’t able to hear all their conversation, but I did that hear four consecutive patients didn’t have insurance.

I know the hospital has a legal bound duty to treat me in emergency room situations. My question is if I would’ve told the hospital admitting clerk that I don’t have insurance Would that be any crime or have any negative effects? Hell you don’t even need to provide ID
They are mandated to treat you. Long story short is why am I begging for an insurance bill and hospital bill when I know illegal aliens aren’t? I understand a lot US citizens don’t have insurance also but they are citizens.

where was this?

quote:

They are mandated to treat you.

They are mandated to perform a medical screening examination (MSE) to determine whether you have medical emergency. Staff cannot, by law, ask about financial situation until the MSE (and stabilization, if warranted) is finished.

If you do have a medical emergency, they are required to stabilize you, then either admit for further treatment or transfer to another hospital, if they have no capability (either by being full or having no specialist for the condition). If they determine that you don’t have a medical emergency needing no hospital admission, they can discharge you with instructions to follow up with some outpatient healthcare provider. Whether you have insurance or not is immaterial. Illegals or citizens doesn’t matter. You show up in the ER, the MSE has to be done. It’s EMTALA (Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act) law.

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Medical Insurance / Is This A Crime ?

Btw, just ignore the “illegals” for a moment, what crime are you referring to?

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Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Medical Insurance / Is This A Crime ?

Btw, just ignore the “illegals” for a moment, what crime are you referring to?

If I get the gist, he is saying if he had not declared he had insurance or provided the info would that be a criminal act. My answer is no, but it definitely would have resulted in a self pay status and big bill it would then be hard to submit to insurance after the fact.

As far as EMTALA and a medical screening exam, unless things have changed since I last worked in an ER (15 + years working ER though most recently in about 2010) in reality, due to liability concerns no one gets a screening exam and sent away. They All get treated completely. And one of the multitude of reasons our medical system is so screwed up and costly is the tons of non insured people getting treatment and never paying the bill.

As one of my old ER attendings used to say- no other business in America works this way. Someone shows up you provide a service, they fail to pay, show up a month later and you are required by law to treat them Again knowing full well that bill isn’t getting paid either

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Originally posted by captain127:
As one of my old ER attendings used to say- no other business in America works this way. Someone shows up you provide a service, they fail to pay, show up a month later and you are required by law to treat them Again knowing full well that bill isn’t getting paid either

THIS is the crime.
People sponging off of our health care system while the rest of us are screwed paying for it.
Illegals should be treated, then ICE called to give them their next destination. DEPORT THEM ALL!!

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Originally posted by captain127:
…in reality, due to liability concerns no one gets a screening exam and sent away. They All get treated completely.

This is absolutely what happens. I was simply pointing out what the law says, since OP wrote that the ER is “mandated to treat you” (meaning everyone), which isn’t correct.

Do the hospitals/ER actually send these illegals/non-insured a bill ? Where do they send it - to some bogus address they were provided at the time of treatment?

quote:

Originally posted by cajunmuscle:
My question is if I would’ve told the hospital admitting clerk that I don’t have insurance Would that be any crime ...?

My immediate reaction was that it sounded like fraud to me to falsely claim that one didn’t have medical insurance in order to get free care at an ER and to avoid any charges to the individual or the insurance provider.

AI Trigger Alert: Out of curiosity I then asked the AI Gemini the question and the response was that yes it was various types of criminal fraud, and there could be other negative effects. I won’t quote the entire reply, but it’s easy enough to check for oneself.

Not in ER, but I have been in the doctors office where self pay was cheaper than what I pay with insurance. If it is a crime to say you do not have insurance and do, perhaps you were so sick you were not thinking correctly when they asked. Would you be obligated later to tell them after recovery?

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Originally posted by mrvmax:

Not in ER, but I have been in the doctors office where self pay was cheaper than what I pay with insurance.?

There used to be a great pharmacist where I picked up my meds. He would advise me if self-pay with GoodRx was cheaper than co-pay with insurance.

I would not think there is a crime in saying you don't have insurance. Similar to going to an auto body shop and pay out of pocket. Now you will be on the hook for the debt and have it attached to your credit.

Now there would be a crime in going to the ER and saying your name is Jose Gomez dob 1/1/1970 and you live at 123 Main St.

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Originally posted by gpbst3:
I would not think there is a crime in saying you don't have insurance. Similar to going to an auto body shop and pay out of pocket. Now you will be on the hook for the debt and have it attached to your credit.

Now there would be a crime in going to the ER and saying your name is Jose Gomez dob 1/1/1970 and you live at 123 Main St.

How so? That’s what’s they do. You think illegal aliens are providing correct bio and billing address info ? How’s it a crime if I do the same thing and give false info ? I’m not lying to a law enforcement officer. Just pisses me off that I’m getting a bill and they aren’t. TONS of people utilize the ER as their primary care physicians office. It was wild the other night in there. Out of probably 12 individuals waiting to be seen, 10 were non-English speakers. For certain I heard that 4 didn’t have insurance. I know you’re gonna say plenty of US citizens don’t have insurance and I get that. They are US citizens though. Illegals (or Tonks for my brothers in the know) make up a segment of society that is HUGE ….. tens of millions, add to that their off-spring.

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Originally posted by cajunmuscle:

Illegals (or Tonks for my brothers in the know) make up a segment of society that is HUGE

I was not familiar with that term ("Tonks"); I found a definition:

the sound a heavy-duty metal flashlight or baton makes when hitting a migrant on the head

We have to control our borders and not elect the folks who don't believe in a border. I don't think we want hospitals denying people care in the emergency rooms. I'm not disputing that the system is routinely gamed by the illegals.

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Originally posted by cajunmuscle:
How so? That’s what’s they do. You think illegal aliens are providing correct bio and billing address info ? How’s it a crime if I do the same thing and give false info ? I’m not lying to a law enforcement officer.

They’re illegals (i.e., criminals), they already committed a crime, so what do they care? You want to commit a crime? By all means. Just be prepared to go to prison. You’re giving false information in order to avoid medical bills. You’re committing fraud, theft of service.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1035

Isn't it illegal, at least in some states, not to have health insurance?

^^^^ Four states (CA, MA, NJ, RI) plus DC have their own health insurance mandate with associate financial penalties.

Many years ago, I hit my femoral. (Low. Lower third of my calf, and I got a tourniquet on it immediately.

Didn’t have a wallet etc and the hospital just gave me a bill.

I was amazed at how cheap it was.

Another thing I would say is criminal is the way medical billing and payment work, which has worsened substantially since the Obamacare mandates. As a medical practitioner if my organization submits a bill for payment ( could be Medicare Medicaid or “ private” insurance) and what basically happens is we submit a fee for example of $350, and we get reimbursed 140, “ take it or leave it” and despite manadatory electronic billing submission you know to make things more efficient- time from submission to payment had gotten far longer, with essentially no recourse for the submitter but to wait for the insurance company or government agency to eventually pay. It is a one way street. If we do not promptly submit ( I forget the timeline) we are out the payment, but they can take months to reimburse us